League Question

[thedonnamc]

I have been on a Women's League going on 4 years. There are 8, 3 person teams... 24 people total. My league secretary received a call from the bowling establishment stating that they were taking two lanes away and we should put 4 people on a team instead of 3. The league has been at that establishment for the past 20 years +. Can the establishment do that? It will mean breaking up the teams. I don't think its right..... Any suggestions????

[fordman1]

As bad as it sounds it can do that. If you can try finding a different place to bowl. Are they doing it for a larger league that would spend more money on food and drinks? Or is it one of those places than don't like leagues because they require actually cleaning and oiling the lanes?

[classygranny]

Our leagues have "contracts" with the houses that state what the terms are. The secretary and president both sign. Some state it is only for the bowling season and some have a "renewal" clause in them. Ask your secretary if one exists. If not, perhaps the league should request one from the house in the future.

[fordman1]

Not sure they are worth the paper they are written on.

[Aslan]

Yes, they can do that.

I'd find a different center for the league.

This kind of thing happened back when Bowlmor first purchased AMF centers. They changed the hours of the centers across the board...no more Wednesday AM and the center didn't open till 4PM on Wednesdays. This displaced many senior leagues...some that had been in place for around a decade. As cruel as it sounds...they (Bowlmor) also fired many of their older workers who were getting "paid too much" or simply didn't fit the "image" they were trying to create. I'm surprised the AARP hasn't issued some type of statement/boycott of AMF/BrunswickZone/Bowlmor centers.

[ALazySavage]

The house, as long as a contract doesn't state they have to adhere to the team size, has the right to do this. As people have been stating this sucks and is a tough situation to deal with. The best thing the league can do is take it as a learning experience for the future. As the shift continues to bowling centers become more geared towards parties and open bowling we will continue to see this. The only positive I have seen come from some of this is that leagues are migrating towards independent houses that treat their leagues properly and slowly (also painfully) some of these larger groups have started to see the damage of not having the guaranteed cash flow from leagues. This has transitioned to the point where some "party" centers (such as main event) have started to see the benefit in pulling leagues in from Bowlmor centers due to the necessity to pull bowlers in on Sunday - Thursday.

[RobLV1]

Last Sunday morning I was practicing with two friends. We started at 8 a.m. and were still bowling two hours later when a recreational doubles league was about to start. The center manager came up to us with a big grin on his face and asked if we would mind moving to a different pair because the league bowlers thought we were too close; they wanted an empty pair next to their league. He had the big grin on his face since he knew that all three of us average higher than anyone in the entire league and would be more respectful to them than they are to each other. We quickly agreed to move, and he gave us each two free game tickets for our trouble. Bowlers are a funny group!

[Aslan]

...and were still bowling two hours later when a recreational doubles league was about to start....asked if we would mind moving to a different pair...and he gave us each two free game tickets for our trouble. Bowlers are a funny group!
That center was obviously one of the better ones. Usually they just tell the casual bowlers "we have to move you; a league is coming in." If you throw a fit, sometimes they refund the games you haven't finished bowling...but generally the league takes precedent.


The only positive I have seen come from some of this is that leagues are migrating towards independent houses that treat their leagues properly and slowly (also painfully) some of these larger groups have started to see the damage of not having the guaranteed cash flow from leagues. This has transitioned to the point where some "party" centers (such as main event) have started to see the benefit in pulling leagues in...
I've seen this as well. The AMF center that booted most of their senior leagues and invested in a fancy new scoring/display system closed down two months later. Many of the Bowlmor centers have either closed down or are seeing very little foot traffic. I went to a private center, to practice, in Anaheim Hills at about 11AM on a Sunday and the place was packed and there was a waiting list. I could walk into the AMF center at just about any time when there is no league going on and I'll be one of only 3-9 people in the place.

"Fun Centers" usually do well early on. It's the 'novelty' of the place. Parents suddenly have a place to bring their kids to entertain them without sitting them in front of a TV. Kids initially think it's fun and cool. But, that novelty wears off....and slowly the numbers dwindle. Those centers will try to supplement their income with gimics like youth bowling leagues and "Un-Leagues" (short leagues)...maybe even those gimicky leagues where you get a free pizza or a free ball....but again, it tends to work for a short time...then the novelty wears off.

I'm trying to find a new home center in my area...and it's frustrating because there's a center right down the road...rather new...very convenient. But, they have 4 sanctioned leagues a year...two each season...half are youth/adult...half are "Unleagues". There's a center about 15 minutes to the West...but same thing...only 4 leagues a year...no bowlers bowl at that center that carry a 200 or above average.

That leaves 5 centers...all in Des Moines...about 20-30 minutes drive to the East. Two of those centers are small....only a couple decent/serious leagues per season. Most of the high average talent bowls at one of two centers...the two furthest from me. :( But, I tell ya what...for those that think league bowling is on it's way out and "fun bowling" is on it's way in...at the one center with the most talent....there are waiting lists to get in some of their leagues. In the other center...I went there last weekend...around 12:00 noon...3/4 of the place was full and they were just finishing up a tournament.

Moral of the story...those "fun centers"...when the gimmicks start to fail...will be the first ones to cry foul and claim bowling is dying...when the truth is...they pushed real bowlers away and forced them to drive past their center to get to a "real" center for leagues.

[Amyers]

That center was obviously one of the better ones. Usually they just tell the casual bowlers "we have to move you; a league is coming in." If you throw a fit, sometimes they refund the games you haven't finished bowling...but generally the league takes precedent.


I've seen this as well. The AMF center that booted most of their senior leagues and invested in a fancy new scoring/display system closed down two months later. Many of the Bowlmor centers have either closed down or are seeing very little foot traffic. I went to a private center, to practice, in Anaheim Hills at about 11AM on a Sunday and the place was packed and there was a waiting list. I could walk into the AMF center at just about any time when there is no league going on and I'll be one of only 3-9 people in the place.

"Fun Centers" usually do well early on. It's the 'novelty' of the place. Parents suddenly have a place to bring their kids to entertain them without sitting them in front of a TV. Kids initially think it's fun and cool. But, that novelty wears off....and slowly the numbers dwindle. Those centers will try to supplement their income with gimics like youth bowling leagues and "Un-Leagues" (short leagues)...maybe even those gimicky leagues where you get a free pizza or a free ball....but again, it tends to work for a short time...then the novelty wears off.

I'm trying to find a new home center in my area...and it's frustrating because there's a center right down the road...rather new...very convenient. But, they have 4 sanctioned leagues a year...two each season...half are youth/adult...half are "Unleagues". There's a center about 15 minutes to the West...but same thing...only 4 leagues a year...no bowlers bowl at that center that carry a 200 or above average.

That leaves 5 centers...all in Des Moines...about 20-30 minutes drive to the East. Two of those centers are small....only a couple decent/serious leagues per season. Most of the high average talent bowls at one of two centers...the two furthest from me. :( But, I tell ya what...for those that think league bowling is on it's way out and "fun bowling" is on it's way in...at the one center with the most talent....there are waiting lists to get in some of their leagues. In the other center...I went there last weekend...around 12:00 noon...3/4 of the place was full and they were just finishing up a tournament.

Moral of the story...those "fun centers"...when the gimmicks start to fail...will be the first ones to cry foul and claim bowling is dying...when the truth is...they pushed real bowlers away and forced them to drive past their center to get to a "real" center for leagues.

Well said

[Tony]

Yes, they can do that.

I'd find a different center for the league.



Agreed, first thing to do is check at some other local centers and see if they can accommodate your league and it's needs.......if they can let the current management that you don't accept the change and if they insist on the change you are gone.....then do it.
I would assume this would require a league meeting to discuss and verify the direction the league plans to take.

[Tony]

That center was obviously one of the better ones. Usually they just tell the casual bowlers "we have to move you; a league is coming in." If you throw a fit, sometimes they refund the games you haven't finished bowling...but generally the league takes precedent.


I've seen this as well. The AMF center that booted most of their senior leagues and invested in a fancy new scoring/display system closed down two months later. Many of the Bowlmor centers have either closed down or are seeing very little foot traffic. I went to a private center, to practice, in Anaheim Hills at about 11AM on a Sunday and the place was packed and there was a waiting list. I could walk into the AMF center at just about any time when there is no league going on and I'll be one of only 3-9 people in the place.

"Fun Centers" usually do well early on. It's the 'novelty' of the place. Parents suddenly have a place to bring their kids to entertain them without sitting them in front of a TV. Kids initially think it's fun and cool. But, that novelty wears off....and slowly the numbers dwindle. Those centers will try to supplement their income with gimics like youth bowling leagues and "Un-Leagues" (short leagues)...maybe even those gimicky leagues where you get a free pizza or a free ball....but again, it tends to work for a short time...then the novelty wears off.

I'm trying to find a new home center in my area...and it's frustrating because there's a center right down the road...rather new...very convenient. But, they have 4 sanctioned leagues a year...two each season...half are youth/adult...half are "Unleagues". There's a center about 15 minutes to the West...but same thing...only 4 leagues a year...no bowlers bowl at that center that carry a 200 or above average.

That leaves 5 centers...all in Des Moines...about 20-30 minutes drive to the East. Two of those centers are small....only a couple decent/serious leagues per season. Most of the high average talent bowls at one of two centers...the two furthest from me. :( But, I tell ya what...for those that think league bowling is on it's way out and "fun bowling" is on it's way in...at the one center with the most talent....there are waiting lists to get in some of their leagues. In the other center...I went there last weekend...around 12:00 noon...3/4 of the place was full and they were just finishing up a tournament.

Moral of the story...those "fun centers"...when the gimmicks start to fail...will be the first ones to cry foul and claim bowling is dying...when the truth is...they pushed real bowlers away and forced them to drive past their center to get to a "real" center for leagues.

One trend to note, although you have seen it as a short lived gimmick, many of the centers around me have implemented beer pizza / wine leagues, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they started it....they used it as a way to fill lanes the leagues weren't using.
Over the past years those leagues are growing.......for example the wed night house I bowl at has 42 lanes, 15 years ago there were 4 leagues, 2 mens, 1 womens and a late shift. The early shift used every lane between the 3 leagues.

Fast forward to this year.....the mens leagues merged 5 years ago, the womens league was down to 5 teams, and disbanded, the late shift league was gone......but the house is still full for the first shift with the beer pizza league using about 30 of the lanes ........

Now in this case they didn't throw out league bowlers, in fact they recruit all the time and also try to get beer and pizza teams that do well to move up to regular leagues....
these leagues are all non certified and are typically 13 weeks with 3 sessions making up the entire fall / winter "season"

The draw, money of course, for 14 or 15 dollars they get beer pizza and bowling .......for 15 to 20 we get bowling only.......I'm pretty sure most of the people in the league are just out for fun and there are very few high average bowlers ......

[Tony]

Last Sunday morning I was practicing with two friends. We started at 8 a.m. and were still bowling two hours later when a recreational doubles league was about to start. The center manager came up to us with a big grin on his face and asked if we would mind moving to a different pair because the league bowlers thought we were too close; they wanted an empty pair next to their league. He had the big grin on his face since he knew that all three of us average higher than anyone in the entire league and would be more respectful to them than they are to each other. We quickly agreed to move, and he gave us each two free game tickets for our trouble. Bowlers are a funny group!

I often see it, the center will relocate bowlers before our 6pm league, so they can oil the lanes and clean up the tables, they typically will give them some free game, or drink tickets for their trouble.

[panbanger]

...This has transitioned to the point where some "party" centers (such as main event) have started to see the benefit in pulling leagues in from Bowlmor centers due to the necessity to pull bowlers in on Sunday - Thursday.

A league at Main Event? I shudder at the thought! Main Events must be different in other parts of the USA. The ones around here barely meet the requirements for them to be called "bowling alleys".

I saw a pro tournament over the weekend on CBS Sports that was at a Main Event somewhere up north. I remember thinking "well that's the last time those lanes will be oiled this decade"

[J Anderson]

A league at Main Event? I shudder at the thought! Main Events must be different in other parts of the USA. The ones around here barely meet the requirements for them to be called "bowling alleys".

I saw a pro tournament over the weekend on CBS Sports that was at a Main Event somewhere up north. I remember thinking "well that's the last time those lanes will be oiled this decade"

Orlando is "up north"?

[panbanger]

Ha! I could have sworn it was in Maine or something like that. I stand by my position on Main Event's oiling schedule though.