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[Amyers]

I have no idea what you're talking about...but it sounds really, really smart. I think I'm just not grasping the concept just yet.

To me...symmetric core balls...make a very arc-like motion. Like a backwards "C". Assymetric balls, it's more like a "Y", but with the right part of the 'y' taken off....like a backwards hockey stick.

It seems...that if a person wants a ball to go long and "snap"...they would want a combination of the following:
1) A polished surface...a 'shiny' ball...so it will go a LONG way and retain as much energy as possible (or not slow down too soon as FTLOB would term it).
2) Maybe a pearl...versus a solid...although...we're starting to agree that may be a minor factor.
3) An assymetric ("Y", backwards hockey stick type shape) core that will really change direction once it stops skidding and transitions to the hook phase.

If the above...IF...the above is a true...generally agreeable...mostly true description of how to make a ball go "long and snap"....then it MUST be true...it MUST be true...that the opposite of those things works AGAINST a "going long and snapping" ball motion. It CANNOT....by the rules of logic...be that those 3 things are true....yet the opposite is also true. If you throw a symmetric (ignore drilling...I think that's more 'mumbo jumbo') ball that is sanded to 350 abralon with a solid cover....it CANNOT be as skid/flip or long/snap...as a pearl, polished, assymetric core ball. It CANNOT. If it is...then those 3 factors are meaningless in terms of ball motion. You can't have two different truths...with conflicting premises...be true. You would either defy logic...or defy physics...or both.

Being asymmetrical or symmetrical doesn't determine what type of motion the ball has.

I guess if you had two balls whith the same cover and surface one with a symmetric core and one with a asymmetrical core. The asymmetrical one would retain its hook phase longer and most likely cover more boards but both will have the same motion. I have never seen this done though so I can't prove it.

most of the asymmetrical balls on the market really aren't super asymmetrical anyways. My guesstimate would be a double thumb or motion hole layout in a symmetrical ball makes it about as asymmetrical as most asymmetricals. Those balls with asymmetry greater than .17 are far and few between.

As I said before asymmetry only enhances the balls existing reaction. If a ball is designed to be skid/flip that it would make it more so but a ball can have any style of hook with either type of core.

[Amyers]

This thread has taken a great turn to illustrate the point of this article.

I commented on the quote, "All balls are asymmetrical once they are drilled," to which Bowl1820 clarified that balls with asymmetrical cores are MORE asymmetrical once they are drilled. The quoted statement joins many others that I will list in a moment in stopping our understanding of bowling balls. Consider: if you have memorized the statement that "All balls are asymmetrical once they are drilled," you don't need to look any further. If, however, you WATCH the differences between balls with symmetrical cores and those with asymmetrical cores in the hands of actual bowlers, it becomes very apparent that balls with asymmetrical cores magnify inconsistencies in bowler's releases much more than balls with symmetrical cores do. This is the value of a discussion of symmetrical vs. asymmetrical cores in bowling balls.

Other statements that are equally as limiting include:

Surface determines 85% of ball reaction.
When balls start straightening out as a session progresses it's because of carry down.
Pin up balls go longer than pin down balls.
Pearl balls go longer than solid balls.
Green balls hook more than other colors.
The "best" balls are the ones that cost the most.
The OOB finish is the one that works the best for a particular ball.
and finally... my personal favorite...
One ball hooks more than another ball.

Lol that's good Rob bowl1820 should add a sticky to this so we can add them on as we go. I'm not sure any sport besides maybe baseball has more unwritten rules and old wives tales than bowling.

[bowl1820]

This thread has taken a great turn to illustrate the point of this article.

I commented on the quote, "All balls are asymmetrical once they are drilled," to which Bowl1820 clarified that balls with asymmetrical cores are MORE asymmetrical once they are drilled. The quoted statement joins many others that I will list in a moment in stopping our understanding of bowling balls. Consider: if you have memorized the statement that "All balls are asymmetrical once they are drilled," you don't need to look any further. If, however, you WATCH the differences between balls with symmetrical cores and those with asymmetrical cores in the hands of actual bowlers, it becomes very apparent that balls with asymmetrical cores magnify inconsistencies in bowler's releases much more than balls with symmetrical cores do. This is the value of a discussion of symmetrical vs. asymmetrical cores in bowling balls.

Other statements that are equally as limiting include:

Surface determines 85% of ball reaction.
When balls start straightening out as a session progresses it's because of carry down.
Pin up balls go longer than pin down balls.
Pearl balls go longer than solid balls.
Green balls hook more than other colors.
The "best" balls are the ones that cost the most.
The OOB finish is the one that works the best for a particular ball.
and finally... my personal favorite...
One ball hooks more than another ball.

I don't think some of the statements in of themselves are limiting, it's just that people take them out of context and don't realize that there's more to it and that's what limits them.

Like the quote, "All balls are asymmetrical once they are drilled," while it's true. It lacks the context and the additional information that would explain the actual differences between Sym. and Asym. balls.

As for asymmetrical cores magnifying inconsistencies in bowler's releases, That's true it's been known for a long time of course a lot don't know it. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be used, it just means they need to be used by the right bowler.

Asymmetrical balls (ones that are Asym. to begin with anyway.) are like fighter planes. A good fighter plane is a little bit unstable and that allows a good pilot to do incredible things with it. But in the hands of a bad or inexperienced pilot they won't be able to control it and it could crash.

Symmetrical balls are more like training planes, they don't over react to the mistakes the pilot makes and allows them to maintain more control.


I've never really heard of Green balls hooking the most. It was Black, Dark Blue and Red which hooked the most, with Solid colors hooking more than multi color.

In all the stuff that I've read over the years that mentioned the color and hook, The idea is believed to have came from (according to old BTM or BJI article I read long ago.) the idea that supposedly some companies back in the old urethane days. Had Used color to basically color code balls to make it easier to sort them in the warehouse.

Dark colors for strong balls, lighter colors for the weaker ones, then as that idea spread and as happens the story started changing till it was how color additives affected the hook of a ball.

So in a way there may have been a grain of truth to it back in the day, just not what people thought it was.

[AlexNC]

I enjoyed the article and didn't think it was her to comprehend. I can see how combining the other info provided by ball manufactures would make things cloudier, and just considering the actual specs in combination with your own physical game would make things much simpler. Case in point, I won the Hammer Arson High Flair Solid a few weeks ago. The ball manufacturer suggests it for medium oil conditions. But, it is the lowest RG ball in my arsenal and combined with the cover at 3000 I can't quite get it to work on medium oil even when its fresh - now this is just me. It seems to read too early. If I was a higher speed player it might work great. My Storm IQ Tour solid has a slightly higher RG, and a 4000 surface (also a lower diff) and it is listed by Storm as for Medium Heavy to Heavy oil (though they try and take into consideration your own game using the matchmaker.) But it is much more usable on the fresh conditions which are definitely not on the heavy side.

[scottymoney]

My favorite one that is untrue is the ball isn't hooking because of "carry down".
I have yet to see how a small spot of oil killed all of the hook out of the ball. If it truly was carry down then you should see the ball try t hook again after hitting the so called "carry down". Let's call it what it really is "loss of energy due to dry conditions".

[NewToBowling]

My favorite one that is untrue is the ball isn't hooking because of "carry down".
I have yet to see how a small spot of oil killed all of the hook out of the ball. If it truly was carry down then you should see the ball try t hook again after hitting the so called "carry down". Let's call it what it really is "loss of energy due to dry conditions".

Yes, I have problems with recognizing this also. It looks like carry down but probably due to ball losing energy. It just doesn't want to "bite" at the end looking like a wet oil spot there but your latter observation is probably truer.

[NewToBowling]

BowliingBall.com's Perfect Scale is also adding to the confusion.

[fortheloveofbowling]

The key is observing closely and being able to tell the difference between carry down and energy loss do to dry fronts. In addition, you must learn to adjust to diminish the negative effect or to utilize it.

[scottymoney]

from the Gold Coach Slowinski..... For some it may be a bit technical but is worth the read
http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/..._slowinski.pdf

[fortheloveofbowling]

from the Gold Coach Slowinski..... For some it may be a bit technical but is worth the read
http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/..._slowinski.pdf

So with THE MYTH OF CARRYDOWN is he saying it never exists? Depending on the volume of oil, placement of oil, lane surface, and lane play it can vary greatly. I'm just perplexed how i can hear great players talk about carrydown and yet it does not exist ever, it is in fact a MYTH. I will say it does not show up anywhere near as often as the alternative.