Grip Pressure

[bowl1820]

I'm one of those guys that likes a tight thumb hole . Now anyway . It stopped me from knuckling it years ago . One thing that I do to get out clean with no suction is I drill a air hole from just below the thumb to the very bottom of the hole . I have that in every ball I own . My driller Drills my thumb hole with twice . My thumb is pretty flat . What we do is drill it to the thin size . One hole One sixteenth off center to the left and one to the right . Then I do all the working of the hole myself . He is a good friend of mine so I get away with using his tools . What it does is make an oval hole witch is perfect for my flat thumb . If you look into it , Mark Roth also did this .It works for me .

Something to think about is trying a thumb slug with the built in vent hole, to save having to drill it.

[Strike Domination]

For getting a copy of my drill sheet, I probably could do that, even though I know some aspects of my grip. I think my driller would charge someone who asked for that though, only because of the fact that you can getting drilling done by online stores now.

I get thumb slugs with the vent holes in them but I don't think they really work since I normally have a "suction" sound when I put my thumb in and take it out. More so when it's first drilled though.

Playbowl, I'm basing the accuracy of my span off the test that says inserting your thumb and laying your fingers across the holes with the hand relaxed(not scruched or stretched) should have the midway point between the first two joints of the fingers in line with the leading edge of the hole(finger grip in my case). It seems right to me, but that depends on if I'm really doing the test right. If anything I thought I could afford to go shorter. When my driller re-fit me probably around 6 months ago, he did have me at 4 1/4 for both fingers, but when I went to insert my thumb the ring finger wanted to "lift" up in the hole like it wanted to come out so we shortened it to 4 1/8. My driller put me at 1/8 forward when we did this, it was going to be 1/16 forward before we shortened the ring.

From the sounds of things, you're saying every aspect of the grip is interrelated. My driller seems to agree with that quite a bit, in the sense that he tries to get the finger pitches and thumb pitch working together. He hates forward pitch in the fingers especially with forward pitch in the thumb. The idea of finger pitches is to have the pads of your fingers in good contact with the front of the holes isn't it? I agree about needing to know how to adjust thumb snugness, I'm just not sure how snug is considered correct. I don't think you should have to work to get your thumb in but I don't think you should be able to slide the thumb in and out without feeling anything either(if that makes sense).

For the free swing and relaxed grip on the ball, I don't think my driller will be hearing that. He does say the shoulder should be free. We had a brief conversation about the ball slipping from my thumb and he said it's because I'm not under the ball. But neither is Michael Fagan and probably other successful bowlers. I mentioned that I freed up my swing earlier in the year and he seemed to advise against just letting the ball fall into the swing like I was doing. He also says you have to apply pressure to the ball to keep it on your hand but there have been a couple of times where he told me to relax the hand "from the apex of the swing." His exact words. I had recently come across the idea of setting the thumb, and that seems to help with the thumb slipping. For that to work though, I think I need only a little bit of bevel.

Just curious, what's your view on the Bevel Sander and its use? My driller uses it an awful lot and it seems like too much, both on the inside of the hole and for beveling. I think it'd be much easier to drill more cuts and just do a few hits with the sander.

[playbowl]

SD
A copy of your drill sheet is a good thing to have and should be updated at least every year but more like every 6 months and yes, be prepared to spend some money for this. I will freely give my loyal customers the specs for their hand for emergencies like lost equipment with airlines. Unfortunately the sheets become obsolete because your hand changes so quickly. Example: You have a ball that fits perfect and you average 225 in league this year and all is good. Over the summer your driller punches another ball for you with say 1/4" more reverse in the fingers to keep your fingers from lifting out. You roll the ball and it feels great all summer and you average 225. In the fall you go back to the original ball and it hangs up and doesn't feel right. Your hand has adapted and if it "feels" right to you, update the older ball. This is why a good relationship with the pro shop is essential. I am glad to see the two of you working together. It will take time to work out the kinks but always keep in mind that sores on the hand and hanging up are NOT part of bowling.
As for the rest of your questions above, if your driller is a coach, great. If not, find one that can work with BOTH of you to resolve issues with your bowling and listen to them only. Too often, and we all do it, we get a tip or buy the hottest ball on the market and the scores suffer because it isn't in harmony with the overall program. Bowling takes time, effort and money. You hold the key to your bowling better and working with those you trust will pay future dividends.



"We had a brief conversation about the ball slipping from my thumb and he said it's because I'm not under the ball."

Absolutely!

[bowl1820]

Heres something that might be of interest you.

http://www.askthebowler.com/measuring_span.html

[Strike Domination]

Playbowl, my driller is not certified but he is somewhat young and bowling is his life. I think he keeps up to date on what works in today's game and all that. I've worked with him for the past year, once I learned the real importance of good fit, to achieve that good fit. He's drilled my stuff for the last 4 years probably. I've stuck with him on loyalty alone, and we're pretty much buddies.

About the thumb slipping, I'm referring to the bottom of the swing on the way back. At the top, it seems to me that I get in a stronger position as it descends. Probably a straight wrist position. I find it very hard to not have my hand on top of the ball after dropping it into the swing, unless I control the heck out of it. I think what my driller was getting at was the force of the ball and gravity is pulling my wrist back at that point. So I'd have to slow down the swing or something.

bowl1820, is that how the span should be checked? I thought that was outdated. Ron Clifton in particular says the span should be checked the way I described.

[Jord_84]

I've heard a few different things about this subject and apparently there's more than one way to go about it. I've heard that you should not have to grip the ball, and that it should hang on to you. I've also heard that you need to apply some pressure, but the constant is that you should never bend your thumb. So with the latter method, which I've been taught personally, you just apply pressure more with the base and skinny part of your thumb.

While I think it would be nice not to have to grip the ball(and sort of scary at the same time), since I tend to have a lot of problems with my thumb rubbing in the hole and causing irritation/tenderness, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that someone could do that. I know basically nothing about physics, but the weight of the ball when you drop it in the swing seems like more than enough for it to fall off your hand. That is, unless maybe if you make the thumb hole tight, then I'd be worried about having a clean release.

If also been told a few times to relax my grip after the ball reaches the top of the swing. I was pretty sketchy about that at first but I tried it and had a clean release sometimes. Other times, I dropped the ball and got gutters. Either way, I'm wondering if this is something anyone else does. It seems logical in the sense that a relaxed hand will allow your to release the ball properly, given good ball fit, but it also seems like the ball should fall to the ground.

Please share YOUR thoughts.

I don't grip the ball, and I have a very clean, consistent release. I use a thumb slug in all of my balls and I have the pro shop guys drill them a little loose, as my thumb has a tendency to swell a little. To be honest, I couldn't tell you how I do it....it's not something I ever think about because it's a non issue for me. Once I get my hand in comfortably, I relax my hand.....the only part I grip, are my fingertips....I want them to almost snap out of the ball on my release because I get more revs.

....but if I go without bowling for any length of time....my thumb shrinks, then I'm in trouble lol

[MH1313]

I get a constant callus/split skin at the base of my thumb on the inside of the bottom joint (closest to palm) I've had my span adjusted and increased the bevel, both of which helped, but didn't solve the problem. I think that I may be knuckling the ball which I think with what I've been reading could cause this.

I can typically bowl 10 games or so, but the thumb will be pretty sore for a few days.

mh

[bowl1820]

bowl1820, is that how the span should be checked? I thought that was outdated. Ron Clifton in particular says the span should be checked the way I described.

No I just offer it as some more reference material in regard to the topic of fitting.

The best suggestion is to get a second opinion form another pro-shop on the fit of your grip. You can't really diagnose a fit problem online. You need someone who can really sit there and look at how you hold the ball and how it fits.

one other suggestion is since your wanting a oval thumb hole. You might try a oval thumb insert, That's what I use.

See examples here

[Strike Domination]

Jord, might I ask what your span and pitches are if you know them? Also if you could describe how snug you keep your thumb hole the best you can that might help. Something for me to compare to is always nice.

bowl1820, I agree that I could get a second opinion. I went to Vegas last summer and got refitted and redrilled. The guys at K&K are the ones that put me at 4 1/4 and 4 1/8 to begin with. They put my thumb pitches at 0 and 0. I tried the Magic Carpet shortly after that for a limited time and thought that if I had 1/8 forward I wouldn't have to grip much at all. Unfortunately that's with the MC and for some reason I don't feel like the same rules apply without it.

I have tried a Vinyl oval insert before, not sure if I like it. Mostly because it irritates a spot on the back of my thumb between the two knuckles, but it's kind of a weird feel to. Could be too tacky also.

[Strike Domination]

Another question I have regarding the grip. When you go to put your thumb in after the fingers, should your thumb be able to stay straight or should you have to bend it some in order to get it in? Just wondering because I think that's sort of a good test to know if your vertical pitch is correct.