Two Important Questions

[Tony]

Unfortunately with the OP, this falls on deaf ears.

My motto in bowling and making adjustments is K.I.S.S.(Keep It Simple Stupid).

Miss left, move left. Miss right, move right. That is assuming you made a good shot that necessitated a move and that you hit where you wanted to down the lane. That is hard for some people to know whether your shot was good or not.

At the level that any of us on this forum bowls, making axis, rotation or any advanced adjustments to a delivery just further complicates the game with skill that we just don't possess.
Find your one good release and get consistent with it. Once you have mastered that, then you can MAYBE incorporate other releases and hand positions.

My measly $.02

The key as you point out is having a consistent release. I find this is probably the number one issue keeping lots of bowlers I bowl with including me from getting to the 200 + average goal.

[billf]

Yeah you're talking about half boards left and/or right. Does that really matter seeing as people tend to miss on average 2-3 boards off their target anyways. Is your lay down point exactly the same along with your release and angle and axis that the 1/2 board makes a difference?

We have a winner!!!! A pro adjustment of 1/2 a board would never apply to a novice.

Another thing, you bowl at two centers regularly, correct? I use to do the same thing, find a line. Then after a conversation with Rob once I kind of went, duh it's the same general area so why am I burning up my own line? It's warm up, not practice. So now I use my opponents preferred line. I'm stiff and everything hurts the first four or five throws anyway so what good is it doing (line wise)?

My main center is wood so my adjustments are bigger. If I start left of everyone in my scratch league I'm out of room before the first game ends. So I start way outside, straight up 3. If I miss right it will go in the gutter. Same if I come around the ball as there is no left to right room so I keep my axis rotation under 45°. That area is only good for one game tops.
Now when I have to move I will jump left of the field, increase my speed as needed and increase my axis rotation. Some nights are like last night where I can't keep the speed high enough to overcome the lanes dying out. Then I move about 7 right with my feet and change my release once again. By now this area is real dry so I use tilt to help get the ball down lane before it reacts to the friction.

My preference would be to play around 8 and keep piping it in with hand at 20+mph but I'm getting too old and worn out for that.

[Tony]

So Amyers...what I'm seeing in your response is if you hit right of the headpin in practice you are going 3:2 (feet:target) right.

That makes sense.

Lets say you make that move and start hitting pocket flush on both lanes and practice time is over.

First frame (left lane); flush strike.
Second frame; through the head (but a bad release)
Third frame; through the head (good shot as far as you know)
Fourth frame; you hit pocket but leave a flat 7-pin.

So, at this point, you've made two good shots on the left lane and the first struck but the 2nd was through the head. So, given it was a solid shot (hit your mark, nothing out of the ordinary)...you make a 2:1 move on the left lane. On the right lane, your first shot was off...but your second shot hit light leaving a flat 7-pin. So do you move right slightly on the right lane? Do you just throw the same shot and assume it'll hit flush the next time? I'm sure you don't want to switch balls after only 4 frames, right?

Lets assume you make the 2:1 on the left lane but stay with the same line on the right lane.
Fifth frame you make a good shot but put a little more hand into it and strike Brooklyn.
Sixth frame you make another good shot and leave a flat 10-pin.

Do you adjust on the left lane? Or do you just chalk that up to "too much hand"? What about the right lane? Two straight frames with pocket hits and light carry?

Lets assume you keep things the same on the left lane and hit pocket in the seventh frame, strike...but you notice the ball exits more on the 7-pin side (indicating you might want to make another move left).
Eighth frame, you do what? Two pocket hits that didn't carry...no release or speed or balance issues that you can notice. Do you move right? Stay where you are? Switch balls? Lets assume you move 1 board right...just for the sake of the example. Result; through the head...but you're not sure if it's the line or if it was that you grabbed it just a little too much at the bottom of the swing.

At this point you're in the 9th frame, you've struck 3 times (1 Brooklyn), you left two corner pins and picked up one of them, and you've had 3 splits that were open. You can now strike out for a 170. : ( And whats WORSE is...you have very little confidence that you're playing the right line, making good shots, or making proper adjustments.

So you make another 2:1 move in the 9th and strike perfectly.
In the 10th you make a 2:1 left (which actually is a 1:1 from where you started before you moved a board right) and you hit light (again) and leave a 4-7. You convert and throw the same shot...pocket, hit light again...leave a flat 10.

See...you just shot a 149...and even though you really only made 2-3 "bad" shots...and even those shots were still "okay" and one of em struck Brooklyn.

I know I'm merely guessing at what you would do after each shot and feel free to correct as needed...I'm just trying to get an idea of what other people do in the situation I've layed out above. I bet some people wouldn't have moved at all. They were around the pocket and they'd just keep doing what they're doing. I bet other people would have made a ball change almost immediately.

What I find frustrating about the above scenario is...you've just wasted one entire game...you've put your team down 0-1...yet despite hitting your mark and "feeling" good...you are NO CLOSER to even remotely understanding what in the **** is going on as you were at the start of the game. You started out hitting right of the headpin in practice...you're now about 4:2 left from there (which is only 1 board left with your feet from where you started in practice...targeting the same spot you were targeting in practice)...and now you're hitting light again.

There's a ton of info about moving left as lanes break down...but you don't see as much info about what to do when you miss right...especially if you were hitting pocket and suddenly aren't. I'm guessing most experts will say the reason for that is...IF you're hitting pocket...you shouldn't ever all of the sudden start hitting light with today's technology resin bowling balls. In other words, if you hit right after hitting pocket...your timing or speed or release is probably off. But that's a dangerous game to play...if you're hitting pocket and then have 2, 3, 4 frames of hitting light and doing nothing about it.

I need a nap.

I will share a theory from an old timer I have bowled against many times over the years, keep in mind he's pushing 70 and uses a 14lb ball.
He starts at the same place every game, he throws a easy suitcase handle style shot. He brings 3 balls one is a spare, one is his trusty Hyroad and a Sky Rocket. He adjusts a little in practice and starts out with the the ball that gets him closest to the pocket from his base starting position, after that he is pretty well on target sometimes adjusting a little as the lanes change. If he started with the sky rocket he will sometimes switch to the hyroad as the line drys out.
Last time I bowled with him he used the hyroad and adjusted his feet a fairly small amount over the whole bowling session, the key is his approach/ footwork/ release is virtually identical on every shot. This allows him to fine tune his shot by making slight adjustments to his hand position, resulting in impressive scoring.
He bowled something on the order of 236/258/276 and carries a 227 average ....all by keeping it simple and not overthinking it.
I would estimate you put more thought into that post than he puts into the whole night !

[ChuckR]

2 other things I have added to my arsenal. Check where I DRIFT. Check where I start the push away. Over drift and I never know where the line is. Raising push away increases speed and helps hold the line that started to work.

[billf]

Unfortunately with the OP, this falls on deaf ears.

My motto in bowling and making adjustments is K.I.S.S.(Keep It Simple Stupid).

Miss left, move left. Miss right, move right. That is assuming you made a good shot that necessitated a move and that you hit where you wanted to down the lane. That is hard for some people to know whether your shot was good or not.

At the level that any of us on this forum bowls, making axis, rotation or any advanced adjustments to a delivery just further complicates the game with skill that we just don't possess.
Find your one good release and get consistent with it. Once you have mastered that, then you can MAYBE incorporate other releases and hand positions.

My measly $.02

I 100% agree with this. Unfortunately I started messing with hand positions way too soon and now can't seem to stop myself. I like being able to do what others can't. But this is also why it's taken me longer to get to where I should be. I can finally change them seamlessly now but still search for the when and where factor this brings to the table. Now if I bowled with somebody of your skill and willingness to help others then I might be in a different position. My way of learning every aspect slowly while you perfect one before moving to another is why you average a ton more than I do. But one day we will both have the knowledge and ability, different roads to the same destination.

[jab5325]

The key as you point out is having a consistent release. I find this is probably the number one issue keeping lots of bowlers I bowl with including me from getting to the 200 + average goal.

You are correct--the biggest issue I have in my game, and that I see across most leagues, is an inconsistent release or timing.

If a bowler gets those two things down and repeatable, they're 75% on their way to averaging 200. The other 25% is learning how to adjust to play the lane.

Once you get there......it's about fine tuning to take your average to the next level.

[Aslan]

Thanks All!!

All very interesting takes/input.

I think Amyers kinda hit it most on the head with his earlier post. I talked to my coach yesterday about this issue and we decided that if I'm missing right in practice...don't just move 1-2 boards right with your feet...do a 3:2 move right, like Amyers suggested.

As to "overthinking"...in my defense...and yes I admit it's an issue....

1) You have to realize that's not 100% controllable. I know it SEEMS like it is. But some personalities (or personality disorders) make people more prone to "overthink" than others. And to those "others"...they view it often times as completely ridiculous and can't understand it.

2) Bowling (or any sport/hobby/activity) is like DATING. How so you ask? Dating is almost ALL about expectations. Are you scoring enough with the ladies? No? Lower your standards. I GUARANTEE...no matter how broke down, poor, stinky, flea infested of a fat loser that you are (assuming you are any of those things)....there IS a girl for YOU!! She is NOT going to be pretty. She may not even have much of a personality. She may in fact look and act a LOT like Rosanne Barr. If you're smelly enough...she may not even be able to get out of bed without help from a forklift. BUT....you CAN score. Just not with Heidi Klum. Or Heidi Klum's ugliest relative. But maybe Heidi Klum's former aquaintance's aunt with a limp and a goiter....you're in business!!

Bowling is all about what you want to achieve. The VAST....and I'm talking VAAAAAST majority of bowlers are casual bowlers. League bowlers make up what, 20% of the bowling population at best? And of league bowlers....at BEST...20% even really care. So now you're talking about the 4% that most people in this site fall into. Of that 4%...I'd say 80% have no interest in ever competing in a real tournament (no-tap doesn't count), or bowling the USBC Open, or even bowling in a local BVL tournament. I'm a proud member of the other 20%....or 0.8% of the population. And of that 0.8%...I have very aggressive short and long term goals.

In one of the "goals" threads...RobM made the point that his "goal" was to have fun. I responded that such a goal made little sense to me. What I meant by that was...if I'm not getting better...and I'm not inching my way towards my goals...it's not "fun" to bowl. If I ever get to the point...as I will eventually get to...where I've "peaked"...and bowling just becomes something to do to get me out of the house....I'm probably going to just find something else to do. That doesn't make sense to everyone...but remember...I'm speaking from 0.8% of the bowling population. I do things 99.2% of the population DON'T do....like;

- practice
- take lessons
- post in forums
- read/subscribe to bowling publications
- watch PBA events on TV
- subscribe and watch PBA50 and PWBA events (including qualifying and match play)
- take notes while bowling
- learn about bowling ball specifications
- video tape myself bowling
- carry a 5-6 ball arsenal
- bowl in tournaments
- etc....

So, the question is....(and we touched on this in another thread)...is the above list abnormal? Should I feel "weird" because I do those things? Believe me...at LEAST 80% of bowlers would look at that list and say, "Yup...weirdo." But is that what we want? Because if that list is abnormal...then bowling as a "sport" is abnormal. Because I'd argue those things are almost all necessary to excel at the sport at higher levels.

I'm not criticizing anyone or their approach. I truly respect people that can "just bowl for fun"...I wish I was wired that way many times....like Monday when I bowled a 133...believe me...it would have been nice to have FUN bowling a 133....and it was NOT FUN...and it took every bit of my strength not to assault my bag like a wilderbeast attacking a wounded duck. But I don't run 5Ks "for the experience" and I don't "bowl just for fun". I'm just not wired that way.

Granted...it would be nice if that dedication would actually pay OFF...ONCE in awhile... And it would be NICE...if my dedication to learning the sport and all the elements would keep me from getting outbowled by 60-year olds that can't bend over and fall off their shots and have approaches that look like a weird form of an epileptic seizure (nobody here...just amazingly horrible forms I've seen from some high average bowlers in leagues)....but lets not make my head hurt...or explode. I have leagues tonight....so I need to gently come down from my caffeine high and think about positive things.

[HowDoIHookAgain]

You are overcomplicating everything there is about the sport of bowling. If you find that you're having a hard time keeping a steady average, then you need to stop worrying about everything else and focus on consistency. I hate people who bring with them 6 balls for 3 games. If you can't adjust with just one or two balls in your arsenal on a house shot, then why would you use 6 balls used for 6 different things? If someone's in a tournament with a different pattern, like cheetah or viper, then I can see someone lugging in a bunch of balls. But if you are having a hard time establishing a consistent (that's the word of the day) average, then you should really think about going back to basics.

Concerning your first question, this is what practice is all about. Establishing that first shot. I normally tend to stand about 26 or 27 in the bone-dry, wood lane house, and shoot for about 13. For the synthetic, more modern center I bowl in for school, I'll stand about 22 or so and shoot 10 (though I'll probably have to change that mark, as I haven't bowled there in well over 6 months). These are just my starting points. If my shot is high, I move everything one or two boards left. If it's light, one or two boards right. If the shots still aren't working, I just keep toying around with them until I find the one that I like, and that becomes my general shot for the day (adjustments made as oil transitions). The next time I bowl, I go back to the shot I had that worked the best last time. So to give you an answer in one sentence, start bowling where you had the most success last time, and adjust from there.

Concerning your second question, missing right normally means you're ball just isn't able to come into the pocket. This is common knowledge for anyone who's played the game. And while all the methods you stated are reasonable, at the end of the day, the best method for about 80% of bowlers is to just move.

[NewToBowling]

Yeah, I'm the opposite. If I'm not having fun bowling I don't want to be doing it anymore.

I used to go practice by myself but realized whats the point. I'd rather bowl with friends and family. We are in a league together and have fun at it.

And my average is going up. I'm getting better at bowling. I watch YouTube videos and am on here a lot and DVR it on ESPN. I do enjoy the subtleties of the sport but have no grand illusions of where I want to take it. For me it's about fun.

But I can understand your take on it. Shoot for the stars. Don't let others get in your way.

[billf]

- practice
- take lessons
- post in forums
- read/subscribe to bowling publications
- watch PBA events on TV
- subscribe and watch PBA50 and PWBA events (including qualifying and match play)
- take notes while bowling
- learn about bowling ball specifications
- video tape myself bowling
- carry a 5-6 ball arsenal
- bowl in tournaments
- etc....

So, the question is....(and we touched on this in another thread)...is the above list abnormal? Should I feel "weird" because I do those things?

I have a girl that is now a junior in high school. I started coaching her the summer before her freshman year. She was averaging 125 on THS. Last season she averaged 205 on sport shots. Our first lesson I sat down with her and both her parents. I made it clear to her that if her grades dropped I was done. Then I explained how I understood that as a teenage girl she was just that, a child who would also have other responsibilities (chores, dances, boyfriends) so if I started to give her too much to do it was HER job to let me know things were getting out of balance.
Now she is 5'2" and 105lbs with grip sacks in her pockets. This year we talked about where she wanted to go next. Last year was Junior Gold, State districts, led GWOC in average. What was next? She said "Average 210, qualify for State, place in top 100 on at least one pattern at Jr. Gold then next year win State and Jr. Gold"
She wants to bowl in college and go pro. She wanted to go to the Olympics but that is sidelined (for now). So I nicely explained that she is done growing and if she is as serious about reaching her goals as she says then nutrition and working out are also now part of the equation. She jogged 5 miles the next day. Yes she was in a ton of pain later but starting anything easy is not her style. Three months later she can sprint two straight miles, curls 50 lbs and can squat twice her body weight for 15 reps for 3 sets. She practices two hours a day on the lanes, has a boyfriend (who bowls) and works part time. She bowls at least one tournament every weekend when the high school season is going on.
I've tried getting her to look at the bowlingacademy videos and other stuff on youtube, dvd, etc. She says I'm the coach and need to know it, she is the athlete and needs to listen to the coach. That's her balance. I learn it and she does it.
This all started when I told her I didn't care what she says she wants, people say stuff all the time but rather show me what you're willing to do to get where you want. Obviously she got the message. Also, the very first lesson, her dad was there and she replied to something I said with, "I can't, I'm a girl!" I calmly ripped her, I won't accept excuses and saying you're a girl is just an excuse and I don't ever want to hear I can't again. The only thing you can't do are the things you think you can't do. Everything else in the world is possible only when you think you can.

So i closing....you're weird, this girl in nuts and her coach is freaking insane.