In League Play When Do You Change To Another Ball?

[vdubtx]

And don't forget, once you have the right ball in your hand, you don't have to make a perfect shot, heck not even a good shot since you are bowling on a house shot. Right Rob?

[scottymoney]

We get 10 minutes of practice in my league. Knowing the people in my league and knowing where they play is a preconception but one I can count on(I know we shouldn't have a preconception but these creatures of habit and I know they will always continue to do this). But I also watch to see what their shots are doing during practice. Before I step up I know watching the people in front of me how the lanes will play. Most guys play up 10 so I see what their balls are doing. Some will miss right, so I get to see where the friction is, a few play in and I can see how much oil is toward the middle.

I also know going in I don't even bother finding a line right off the bat, and usually the ball I am throwing with my first few shots is not going to be the one I start with. I use a less aggressive ball the first few shots and throw up 10 to get loose. I know I will be playing inside everyone else so I don't go in and mess with my line until the end of practice where I can get a few warmed up shots to give me a read on roughly where and what ball to start with.

[RobLV1]

And don't forget, once you have the right ball in your hand, you don't have to make a perfect shot, heck not even a good shot since you are bowling on a house shot. Right Rob?

Sarcasm aside, yes, that's pretty much right on a typical house shot. How else do you account for the hundreds of thousands of 300 games bowled each year. Are there really that many elite bowlers out there? I don't think so.

[vdubtx]

Sarcasm aside, yes, that's pretty much right on a typical house shot. How else do you account for the hundreds of thousands of 300 games bowled each year. Are there really that many elite bowlers out there? I don't think so.

So, you should be throwing 900's all the time. Why don't I see you doing that. How many of the easy peasy 300's have you thrown? Don't have to be "Elite" to throw a 300 game.
If it really were as easy as just throwing out on the lane, we would all have 300's every night.

Don't know what kind of house shot you all have over there. But here, if you aren't on target, you aren't hitting the pocket.

[Aslan]

We get 10 minutes of practice in my league. Knowing the people in my league and knowing where they play is a preconception but one I can count on(I know we shouldn't have a preconception but these creatures of habit and I know they will always continue to do this). But I also watch to see what their shots are doing during practice. Before I step up I know watching the people in front of me how the lanes will play. Most guys play up 10 so I see what their balls are doing. Some will miss right, so I get to see where the friction is, a few play in and I can see how much oil is toward the middle.

I also know going in I don't even bother finding a line right off the bat, and usually the ball I am throwing with my first few shots is not going to be the one I start with. I use a less aggressive ball the first few shots and throw up 10 to get loose. I know I will be playing inside everyone else so I don't go in and mess with my line until the end of practice where I can get a few warmed up shots to give me a read on roughly where and what ball to start with.

While we only get a few warm-up shots, there is a plethora of information that is available to us during all of the shots (not just ours, but everyone who is warming up on the pair). Watching the ball motion on every shot will tell you volumes, as will noticing where the other bowlers are playing the lanes. Once you start understanding the real differences between bowling balls, I think that you'll find that ten minutes of practice provides plenty of information to give you a good start to the night.

So on a 4-person team with two lefties and one person that plays inside at 10mph. I play just outside of 2nd arrow and bowl 16-19mph. So what exact information am I gathering? The other team 'might' have a RH bowler that plays a similar line to me...but what am I watching for?

See, here's the "real world" example. At the tournament Saturday I got there early. I couldn't practice...but I found a high average bowler, my height, right-handed, and I watched what line he was playing. I then used my phone to calculate his ball speed and it was 16.5...similar to mine. His line was just inside of 3rd arrow. But I KNEW...I could not play that line. And since I couldn't calculate his rev rate quite as easily...and he was throwing a far more aggressive ball than I have in my arsenal...I could only use the data I was gathering as a "guide". And when it finally came time to take my shots in practice....I moved back outside 2nd arrow and then even further outside...there was no way I could play that guys line.

So maybe that's a good idea for another article...but again, I don't see in a standard league...with leftys and rightys and women and low ball speeds and different styles exactly the information you could gather that will allow you to avoid preconceptions or predeterminations. Rob is an expert and he has very valid points about why preconceptions/predeterminations are not ideal...I just want to see how we can avoid those preconseptions/predeterminations with 2-7 shots. That's the challenge and I've heard very little in terms of how to gather data that will tell you somewhat definitively that can be used to put you on the RIGHT line and the RIGHT ball in your hands off 2-7 shots.

Like I said originally; Rob's article and theory behind it are strong...but it's primarily a criticism or conventional approaches without ever offering a real solution that can be done in the time pre-league that most of us encounter.

[Aslan]

And this also plays into one of my biggest bowling pet peaves. To really get a feel for your arsenal and how it behaves, different lines, different balls....you don't have enough time in pre-league practice to really get a solid read on that...AND....(this is the pet peave part) it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to practice at other times on league conditions. And because conditions vary SO much...and can affect scoring and how you approach the lanes...practicing on burnt up lanes might almost do MORE harm than GOOD.

So to really get good at bowling faster than the average bowler that simply goes from a 160s bowler to a 190s bowler over 20-30 years as they slowly get better and more consistent...you almost have to have your own lanes or work at the lanes where you can control what you're practicing on. I'm tired of being able to throw a 300 on burnt up lanes and 600+ series...and then struggle to break 180 on "fresh" conditions. For those of us that are still interested in bowling as a sport...it's getting harder and harder.

rant over

[Amyers]

So on a 4-person team with two lefties and one person that plays inside at 10mph. I play just outside of 2nd arrow and bowl 16-19mph. So what exact information am I gathering? The other team 'might' have a RH bowler that plays a similar line to me...but what am I watching for?

See, here's the "real world" example. At the tournament Saturday I got there early. I couldn't practice...but I found a high average bowler, my height, right-handed, and I watched what line he was playing. I then used my phone to calculate his ball speed and it was 16.5...similar to mine. His line was just inside of 3rd arrow. But I KNEW...I could not play that line. And since I couldn't calculate his rev rate quite as easily...and he was throwing a far more aggressive ball than I have in my arsenal...I could only use the data I was gathering as a "guide". And when it finally came time to take my shots in practice....I moved back outside 2nd arrow and then even further outside...there was no way I could play that guys line.

So maybe that's a good idea for another article...but again, I don't see in a standard league...with leftys and rightys and women and low ball speeds and different styles exactly the information you could gather that will allow you to avoid preconceptions or predeterminations. Rob is an expert and he has very valid points about why preconceptions/predeterminations are not ideal...I just want to see how we can avoid those preconseptions/predeterminations with 2-7 shots. That's the challenge and I've heard very little in terms of how to gather data that will tell you somewhat definitively that can be used to put you on the RIGHT line and the RIGHT ball in your hands off 2-7 shots.

Like I said originally; Rob's article and theory behind it are strong...but it's primarily a criticism or conventional approaches without ever offering a real solution that can be done in the time pre-league that most of us encounter.

Ok I don't know that I necessarily agree with this no preconception the entire bag and every possible line on the lane is open for judgment every night thing but I can watch my teammate who bowls higher speed than I do and a little farther right of me and see if the back ends are fried or not. I can tell if it's a lake out there. So can I tell if I'm going to put the Virtual Gravity up and grab the Arson Low Flare without ever throwing a ball? Yep. Does it tell me if my shot is going to be over 12 or 15 maybe or maybe not but I know which direction I'm going to start from.

If your only bowling with people who are throwing plastic equipment then maybe you cant tell much but even a lefty throwing tells you something. If you watch and know their game even watching a two hander can tell you how the lanes are reacting. This becomes tougher in tournaments when you don't know the people you are bowling around but for league it works. Now where it doesn't work for me is if you have balls that are close together strength and oil handling wise but different shapes. I don't know how you make that decision.

[Mike White]

So, you should be throwing 900's all the time. Why don't I see you doing that. How many of the easy peasy 300's have you thrown? Don't have to be "Elite" to throw a 300 game.
If it really were as easy as just throwing out on the lane, we would all have 300's every night.

Don't know what kind of house shot you all have over there. But here, if you aren't on target, you aren't hitting the pocket.

I gotta call BS on that one. In that bit about Bill Fong, it said at Plano while he's averaging 230+, he's not in the top 15 in his league.

Unless your target is 5-6 boards wide, thats a lot of strikes being thrown while off target.

Notice most of the scores your posted where you break down what pins where left.

If you leave a single pin like a 4, 7, 8, 9, or 10, that would indicate you were close to target, but 4-6, 3-6, 6-10, 2, 2-8, or anything leaving the head pin, you missed target.

Based on your scores, you miss by a lot more often than you miss by a little.

That tends to indicate the help from the oil pattern is making the small missed still become strikes.

When you finally make a shot that is beyond help, the results aren't close to strikes.

[Aslan]

This would be a rare topic where Rob and Mike seem to be in agreement....that the lane conditions nowadays and the advanced equipment has made the game very easy.

If they ask me that on Wednesdays...I'd agree with them. If they ask me most other days...I'd disagree with them.

I think the game hasn't gotten "easier", it's just been changed. Where I DO AGREE with them is that houses can now alter the scores at their facilities by changing the oil pattern...and without significant oversight at significant cost...I don't see a time when bowling will be a level playing field where you can honestly compare averages from house to house. Case in point...last season I was 173 at one house and 194 at the other. This season so far I'm 179 at one house and 207 at the other. It's almost like playing two different games.

[vdubtx]

I gotta call BS on that one. In that bit about Bill Fong, it said at Plano while he's averaging 230+, he's not in the top 15 in his league.

Unless your target is 5-6 boards wide, thats a lot of strikes being thrown while off target.

Notice most of the scores your posted where you break down what pins where left.

If you leave a single pin like a 4, 7, 8, 9, or 10, that would indicate you were close to target, but 4-6, 3-6, 6-10, 2, 2-8, or anything leaving the head pin, you missed target.

Based on your scores, you miss by a lot more often than you miss by a little.

That tends to indicate the help from the oil pattern is making the small missed still become strikes.

When you finally make a shot that is beyond help, the results aren't close to strikes.

Can call BS all you want. I bowl on the lanes, you don't. Plano specifically is very speed dependent as it is a lower volume. If you get slow, you are going through the nose or crossing over. Thanks for your "analysis" of my game, I know I am not perfect and openly admit it.

The bit about Bill Fong, the house has 2 competitive leagues that bring in the best of the best in the Dallas area to bowl in them. So it is very reasonable to say that 230+ won't be in top 10-15 whatever. Some PBA regional guys averaging 240+ in those leagues.