When making adjustments what increments do you use

[Amyers]

If I had to list reasons why that doesn't happen:
1) Very tiny % of people bowl scratch leagues.
2) Most bowlers don't listen to other bowlers.
3) With bowling being a sport of varied styles, it often times isn't as helpful.

I know we touched on this in another thread...but on the two teams I'm on now (5-person and a 4-person, both mixed":

- There are 3 left-handed bowlers. In addition, two of them throw essentially thumbless. One throws like me, but on the left side. All are younger and unlikely to take "coaching".

- There are 3 females. All right-handers; but two bowl back-up. The other one bowls more like me...but at a very low speed.

- The only right-handed male bowler besides me throws a straight ball up third arrow...and at a low speed (he's coming off injury).

So what can be learned in that scenario? You can't assume the left side plays the same as the right because 1) That's an assumption and 2) It's statistically a bad assumption because there are less LHers in our population which means the right side of the lane will almost always have more traffic/abuse that will likely lead it to react differently than the left.

The other bowlers don't have any speed or any revs. Sometimes I can watch the one female bowler that plays a similar line to see 'maybe' when the ball begins to encounter friction...but other than that...it's hard to get useful data.

For higher level, scratch bowlers and tournament teams...I think that's a great and under-utilized tool (communication). But for 96% of bowlers...not so much.

Well if were talking transition here it really shouldn't be much of an issue with that lineup no one is on your line so the only person you have to worry about on your team is you. Unless your bowling on much thinner patters than my houses a 2-1 once a night would probably do it.

If we are talking about starting off you can gather info on the lefties on a fresh condition the back ends and edges should (maybe not always) play similar to start. you're not trying to reinvent the wheel every night just making observations to assist you in your ball selection and where on your lines to play.

[Aslan]

Well if were talking transition here it really shouldn't be much of an issue with that lineup no one is on your line so the only person you have to worry about on your team is you. Unless your bowling on much thinner patters than my houses a 2-1 once a night would probably do it.

If we are talking about starting off you can gather info on the lefties on a fresh condition the back ends and edges should (maybe not always) play similar to start. you're not trying to reinvent the wheel every night just making observations to assist you in your ball selection and where on your lines to play.

Usually there's at least 1 other person (on the other team) that is on or near my line. Sometimes I luck out and it's just me...but usually there's one other person. Last night there wasn't...I probably wouldn't have needed to even make a ball change had we been bowling on the other side of the house on fresh conditions. But these lanes were beaten up so badly that the transition was constant.

And you also have to remember; just because someone is on my line doesn't make their shot a source of information. What if they throw 9mph? What if they throw a spinner? What if they don't use their thumb?

I think when it comes to watching other bowlers, we are making a lot of "assumptions". If we can "assume" that the left side plays the same as the right side (of an individual lane), then can't we also assume that each lane (of the pair) will play the same? And if each lane plays the same...can't we conclude that the center as a whole generally plays the same from one side to the other?

See, once we start making assumptions, we're back to square 1.

[Amyers]

Usually there's at least 1 other person (on the other team) that is on or near my line. Sometimes I luck out and it's just me...but usually there's one other person. Last night there wasn't...I probably wouldn't have needed to even make a ball change had we been bowling on the other side of the house on fresh conditions. But these lanes were beaten up so badly that the transition was constant.

And you also have to remember; just because someone is on my line doesn't make their shot a source of information. What if they throw 9mph? What if they throw a spinner? What if they don't use their thumb?

I think when it comes to watching other bowlers, we are making a lot of "assumptions". If we can "assume" that the left side plays the same as the right side (of an individual lane), then can't we also assume that each lane (of the pair) will play the same? And if each lane plays the same...can't we conclude that the center as a whole generally plays the same from one side to the other?

See, once we start making assumptions, we're back to square 1.

Your watching reaction not how/where they are throwing so much. If they are close to your line and you see thier ball hook earlier than it has been you learned something. If they are playing inside but you share a break point and you see thier ball hook early you've learned something. I agree if they are throwing plastic or backups it limits thier usefulness. One of my teammates is left handed older guy with back problems throws about 8 mph with a release that would make you cringe plays way far right across the middle and hook it back. Does he bowl anything like I do? Heck no. Watching his ball tells me more about the middle of the lane than ten guys throwing like me would. At that speed if theirs a track thier I can see it in a heart beat. I'm not looked to copy someone else's adjustments I'm just looking for info on where the lane is changing.

I am also not assuming the left is changing like the right but I can watch the heads from a lefty playing on my side. I can pretty well assume at the beginning of the game the back ends are somewhat equal.

[fortheloveofbowling]

If I had to list reasons why that doesn't happen:
1) Very tiny % of people bowl scratch leagues.
2) Most bowlers don't listen to other bowlers.
3) With bowling being a sport of varied styles, it often times isn't as helpful.

I know we touched on this in another thread...but on the two teams I'm on now (5-person and a 4-person, both mixed":

- There are 3 left-handed bowlers. In addition, two of them throw essentially thumbless. One throws like me, but on the left side. All are younger and unlikely to take "coaching".

- There are 3 females. All right-handers; but two bowl back-up. The other one bowls more like me...but at a very low speed.

- The only right-handed male bowler besides me throws a straight ball up third arrow...and at a low speed (he's coming off injury).

So what can be learned in that scenario? You can't assume the left side plays the same as the right because 1) That's an assumption and 2) It's statistically a bad assumption because there are less LHers in our population which means the right side of the lane will almost always have more traffic/abuse that will likely lead it to react differently than the left.

The other bowlers don't have any speed or any revs. Sometimes I can watch the one female bowler that plays a similar line to see 'maybe' when the ball begins to encounter friction...but other than that...it's hard to get useful data.

For higher level, scratch bowlers and tournament teams...I think that's a great and under-utilized tool (communication). But for 96% of bowlers...not so much.

I think it is time for you to think about getting on some better teams in more competitive leagues. Bowling with and against better players will improve your game.

[Ishkabibble]

I think it is time for you to think about getting on some better teams in more competitive leagues. Bowling with and against better players will improve your game.

Most of the better bowlers have left our house when the new owners stopped putting out any kind of a consistant shot. We had 2 scratch leagues on Friday night that are now gone. Some people were bowling in 2 different house and averaging 20-30 pins lower in our house so they went where the shot is easier. It seams the owners are more interested in having birthday parties pay their rent rather than leagues. I would say we lost over 60% of our bowlers since the new owners and many leagues gone. The Monday night womans league went from 60 ladies to 18 I think they have now.

[Aslan]

I think it is time for you to think about getting on some better teams in more competitive leagues. Bowling with and against better players will improve your game.

There are very few scratch leagues to choose from. I know of one in La Habra...which isn't too far away from where I work, but kinda a haul from where I live. And there are numerous senior scratch leagues...but I'm not a "senior". And most of those leagues are during the day during the week. Actually, there are some more competitive leagues during the DAY...mainly because many of the participants are pro shop owners so they have trouble being in evening leagues since that's their busiest time for their shops.

There are some competitive scratch leagues in Fountain Valley...but that's a haul during rush hour. And there's a very competitive scratch singles league in LA County but with a $10,000 prize pool...those guys are all 220-230 bowlers.

My Wednesday team is more competitive....we purposely put the team together to be competitive. But like I said, it's a team of two thumbless bowlers, a low level male and low level female. Finding a higher level female bowler is tough, even in SoCal. There are a few that I know, but I've been struggling just to find a partner for a local mixed doubles tournament next month. I asked one woman that I've seen bowl on Wednesdays but she didn't seem that interested. There are a couple others I could ask. But the pool is pretty shallow.

One of my goals is to someday graduate to just higher level scratch leagues...but I figure I'm gonna need to be averaging in the 190s before I consider that move. Remember, # of posts is not a 1 to 1 comparison to how good I am as a bowler (I wish). It just means I have reasonable internet access. There's a LOT of work that needs to be done regarding my game before I get too far ahead of myself.

[fokai73]

The house shot and the modern balls gives a lot of bowlers a sense of skill they think they have. And that's the norm now, if not, bowling will die.

Anyone can hit the second arrow, but down the lane where it counts, they can miss several boards left or right. Hit the pocket and then they say "I GOT ROBBED!" when they leave a 10 pin.

Anyway, I adjust off my ball reaction, where I hit the pocket, pin action, and/or whatever I leave. Also, I watch others and their ball/pin reaction too. But before I adjust, I ask myself three questions mostly.

1. How was my approach? (the timing and/or feel)
2. Did I roll it right? (axis and/or rotation)
3. Did I get to the spot down lane and what happened?

Both houses that I bowl, I don't move much. By the end of the night in my first shift leagues, I'm 1 to 3 boards difference from where I start. Second shift, I could be 2 to 5 boards or more with my feet. As my feet move, so does my spot. This is for THS leagues. With sport, it can vary a lot for me.
One time I bowled on a cheetah, thinking I'll be moving a lot from the experience from the day before...well, after 4 games, I only moved 1 board on the left side all night.

[billf]

This is a very interesting discussion, but the one thing that I've not seen mentioned is communication between teammates. This is huge in many scratch leagues.

I do this on Tuesday and Sundays. Kegan is our anchor on Tuesdays. Good kid and good bowler. Shot two 300s last week and is averaging 236. Extremely smooth and consistent. We average the same on sport shots. Before I make my move left I will ask him where he is at. I then go three left of him on the approach and two at the arrows. Our rotation is close but my rev rate is higher. The three others on the team can't and won't go left of second arrow.
Sunday trio Trent and I will discuss the lanes and the transition even though some days we are playing them totally different than each other. Two weeks ago we were on 1+2. He used two different balls and two different lines. I used the same ball and same line just changed tilt. when we were talking about the lanes he asked where I was on 2. After I told him he asked about 1. I told him what I was doing and he laughed saying I was the most versatile 190 bowler he ever saw. Now if only I could see the arrows from the foul line smh

[Amyers]

I do this on Tuesday and Sundays. Kegan is our anchor on Tuesdays. Good kid and good bowler. Shot two 300s last week and is averaging 236. Extremely smooth and consistent. We average the same on sport shots. Before I make my move left I will ask him where he is at. I then go three left of him on the approach and two at the arrows. Our rotation is close but my rev rate is higher. The three others on the team can't and won't go left of second arrow.
Sunday trio Trent and I will discuss the lanes and the transition even though some days we are playing them totally different than each other. Two weeks ago we were on 1+2. He used two different balls and two different lines. I used the same ball and same line just changed tilt. when we were talking about the lanes he asked where I was on 2. After I told him he asked about 1. I told him what I was doing and he laughed saying I was the most versatile 190 bowler he ever saw. Now if only I could see the arrows from the foul line smh

Do I ever understand this. I had the PSO ask me about my break point the other day and what board it was at. I told him it's around the shadow of the 6 pin as I can't see the boards that far down the lane. I have trouble picking up individual boards at the arrows much less 40 ft down the lane.

[billf]

I can see the arrows in my stance but not the foul line. On the way I pick up the foul line but lose the arrows. If I try targeting the breakpoint my ball seems to never make the turn. So if any of my mechanics are off I don't miss by a board or three more like fifteen or twenty. I wish I had the bowling knowledge I now posess before my eye injury but in the grand scheme of life it's very little to sacrifice.