Right Ball, Wrong Ball; Big ball, small ball...where's Dr. Seuss when you need him??

[Amyers]

There are a couple of things that you are not taking into account: the lanes themselves, and where you choose to play them. From my own experience, solids work better in some centers, pearls work better in others, and others you can use anything because other factors like rg and surface make more of a difference. You seem to want a plan so badly, so at least develop your plan(s) for each center. The idea that starting with solids, and playing a certain line on Monday has anything at all to do with Wednesday night at a different center is rediculous. If you notice my own arsenal as I listed it below, I have grouped the balls by RG, and have two or three choices within each rg group, set up by cover material. When I go to Southpoint, I tend to favor solids on the high side of the house, and pearls on the low side of the house. At Red Rock, I don't even bother bringing a low rg asymmetrical, bringing two high rg balls, a polished solid, and a pearl instead, along with a low rg pearl and a medium rg hybrid. At the Suncoast, I tend to use low rg solids to attack the shorter pattern playing more inside in the oil.

These plans involve what to bring to a particular center, based on what has worked in the past, and with the full understanding that what has worked in the past is no guarantee that it will work next time. Once you get there, you still have to use your eyes to figure out what will work now.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say. On your league nights you should have some idea what is working through trial and error. Does that mean I continue to do the same thing if it's nor working because usually it does? NO but past results are indicative of future conditions. Instead of saying I always start with this ball for league try different ones. As you change your bowling style what works may change too so periodically try something different for a few practice shots during warm ups.

I don't know if why is really important here but a couple of thoughts in the house where the solids perform better chances are the pattern on the outside is heavier or longer than on the house where the pearls work better. You don't necessarily need to understand why. What you do need to do is watch your balls reaction to be able to adjust to the conditions.

For tournaments this gets more difficult because you don't have those previous experiences. I tend to start by throwing my Arson even on heavier pattern as that is 1 my most even rolling ball so I can judge the lanes best with and 2 it's the ball I know the best so I'm better at spotting things with it.

[bowl1820]

I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone is saying, but I still don't see an answer to why the solids would perform worse on the fresh than the pearls.

Just because a shot is "fresh", doesn't mean you always start with a solid. It just tells you it's fresh oil.

But as I've stated over and over again....you have 2-7 shots...you don't have time pre-league play to go through every ball on both lanes and try to see which ball is aligning with the stars and moon phases.

If you learn how your equipment works and compares (and I don't mean just comparing the ball spec's.) to each other before going to league, You don't have to go through every ball on both lanes during warm up.

A lot of bowlers use a "benchmark" ball, which they roll and see how it reacts. Then based on that reaction and knowing their equipment, select a another ball that gives them a reaction closer to what they are looking for.

To ME....if I'm just guessing based on my limited knowledge of bowling ball specs...

Knowing ball spec's. is a good starting point for somethings, but you can't go by the numbers alone. You still have to see how the balls actually preform on the lanes.

As to why I stick with the solids on Mondays is two-fold:

You stick with solids because your trying to use ridged, inflexible systems that don't allow for you to make changes based on experience and what you actually see happening on the lanes.

[Mike White]

I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone is saying, but I still don't see an answer to why the solids would perform worse on the fresh than the pearls.

A possible explanation of solid vs pearl on fresh.

Think of the oil much like a ocean wave (but not moving), and your ball is the surf board.

If the ball is heading towards the oil, but almost parallel to it, the ball doesn't have enough momentum to climb up over the wave, so it stops it's right to left motion, then settles back down the face of the wave until the forces reach equilibrium.

At that point the ball is sensing some friction from the lane, which will reduce the axis of rotation, while increasing the ball's rev rate.

The interaction between the ball, the lane, and a slight amount of oil between will be different with a solid, than with a pearl. The solid will experience more friction.

Since you have a lower rev rate, a solid ball is likely to lose too much of the axis of rotation before the ball reaches the end of the oil pattern.

At the end of the pattern, the wave has "flattened out", so there isn't any oil to keep the ball from turning left.

Depending on how much axis rotation, and rev rate you started with, a pearl ball may have retained enough of both to give you sufficient change in direction to carry, while the solid has lost enough axis of rotation to hit weakly.

You've noticed if you pull the ball with just enough right to left momentum to climb the wave, the ball becomes a frozen rope toward the pocket, but is likely to leave a 10 pin.

And if you pull it even more, it goes Brooklyn or further.

People with more hand tend to start the ball on the back side of the wave with a left to right motion, with the hope that ball slides down the wave and reaches the same equilibrium.

The more launch angle you can use, the bigger your pull has to miss crossing the wave.

[Aslan]

If you notice my own arsenal as I listed it below, I have grouped the balls by RG, and have two or three choices within each rg group, set up by cover material.

I read your article on this topic on BTM. And if I use your chart, I would have balls with a 2.48, 2.51, 2.53, and 2.56 RG.

My balls have RGs of 2.574 (0.054 diff./solid), 2.50 (0.052 diff./solid), 2.50 (0.043 diff./hybrid), 2.512 (0.050 diff./pearl), and 2.558 (0.054 diff./pearl).

And this is where things get confusing and people just turn the television off and go to bed...is that "by the numbers"...the 2.50 solid should roll slightly sooner but with a little more flare than the 2.50 hybrid. But, the hybrid may store up more energy than the solid. So they may be a wash. The 2.512 would seem like the ball that roll the next soonest followed by the 2.558 and then 2.574.

Maybe that's the answer. As much as I hate moving the Lethal Revolver to the back of the bus when it is just hammering the pins on Wednesdays...if we go by strictly RG...the Lethal Revolver should be saved for when lanes have dried out and I need a little more length. But there's a problem with that logic. When we look at bowling balls...what are the most influential factors to ball movement? Release, friction (lane), and surface (cover stock). That's a fairly universal belief. SO if we focus on the cover as the biggest indicator...how can I move a solid from #1 to #5 (in terms of which ball rolls soonest)?

And furthermore...why would a company make a high RG ball with a solid cover? Wouldn't the two cancel each other out? In other words, why make a ball that reads friction way earlier than the core is ready to take advantage of?? It's like taking a car and trying to get it to drift (skid) around a corner but deciding to put new super soft tires on it first.

So I DID read that article...I just can't see how that would help with my current arsenal being what it is.

[Amyers]

I read your article on this topic on BTM. And if I use your chart, I would have balls with a 2.48, 2.51, 2.53, and 2.56 RG.

My balls have RGs of 2.574 (0.054 diff./solid), 2.50 (0.052 diff./solid), 2.50 (0.043 diff./hybrid), 2.512 (0.050 diff./pearl), and 2.558 (0.054 diff./pearl).

And this is where things get confusing and people just turn the television off and go to bed...is that "by the numbers"...the 2.50 solid should roll slightly sooner but with a little more flare than the 2.50 hybrid. But, the hybrid may store up more energy than the solid. So they may be a wash. The 2.512 would seem like the ball that roll the next soonest followed by the 2.558 and then 2.574.

Maybe that's the answer. As much as I hate moving the Lethal Revolver to the back of the bus when it is just hammering the pins on Wednesdays...if we go by strictly RG...the Lethal Revolver should be saved for when lanes have dried out and I need a little more length. But there's a problem with that logic. When we look at bowling balls...what are the most influential factors to ball movement? Release, friction (lane), and surface (cover stock). That's a fairly universal belief. SO if we focus on the cover as the biggest indicator...how can I move a solid from #1 to #5 (in terms of which ball rolls soonest)?

And furthermore...why would a company make a high RG ball with a solid cover? Wouldn't the two cancel each other out? In other words, why make a ball that reads friction way earlier than the core is ready to take advantage of?? It's like taking a car and trying to get it to drift (skid) around a corner but deciding to put new super soft tires on it first.

So I DID read that article...I just can't see how that would help with my current arsenal being what it is.

Your still making the same mistake here of trying to order your balls instead of using what works. If the Lethal Revolver is working to start with then use it. The next question is what do I move to. Experiment with that try making a small move left with a pearl or maybe a little larger move with one of the solids. Find something that allows you to keep a similar (not exactly the same) line and something that has a different motion or whatever Know how many boards you have to move from the Lethal from each of you balls and learn what's most effective. Don't assume this will be the same for your other league. Quite trying to make order out of an art.

[RobLV1]

"And furthermore...why would a company make a high RG ball with a solid cover? Wouldn't the two cancel each other out? In other words, why make a ball that reads friction way earlier than the core is ready to take advantage of?? It's like taking a car and trying to get it to drift (skid) around a corner but deciding to put new super soft tires on it first."

You are so focused on cover material that you are totally ignoring the one thing that can be changed: the surface. A solid cover will find friction sooner if it has a lot of surface. A pearl cover will skid more in the oil if it is polished. When a company makes a high rg ball with a solid cover, it is usually polished or has very little surface. Look at some examples: Brunswick LT 48, RG 2.56, solid polished; Storm Wipe Out, RG 2.55, solid 3000 abralon; Roto Grip Devour, RG 2.56, solid 3000 abralon; Columbia Deep Freeze, RG 2.59, solid polished; DV8 Dude, RG 2.55, solid polished; etc., etc., etc.

There are four factors that create ball reaction: core, layout, cover material, & finish. The core numbers are indicators of what to expect before the ball is drilled. The layout determines the actual core numbers after the ball is drilled. We've beaten the cover materials to death in this thread. Once the ball is drilled, the only element that can be easily changed is the surface. Try this experiment: take two balls with similar core numbers, one a solid, and the other a pearl. Put a 1000 surface on each. Polish the solid over the 1000 surface. Leave the pearl unpolished. Throw them each on the same lane using the same line. I think this will show you beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is more involved in a bowling ball than the cover material.

[billf]

Hopefully, you still feel more benevelant towards me when I tell you that the idea that pin down balls roll earlier is left over from pre-resin days when static weights actually had some impact. In those days, pin up balls had more finger weight that made them roll later, and pin down balls had more thumb weight that made them roll earlier. Today, when static weights have virtually no impact, pin down balls result in a larger angle to the VAL which, as described by Mo Pinel, "...will raise the RG and lower the total differential of the drilled ball. These changes will result in the ball revving up slower and transitioning slower." This was confirmed for me when I purchased a Radical Grease Monkey that contained a pamphlet that showed the actual rg and differentials with different layouts. The ball which has an undrilled low rg of 2.541 and differential of 0.047, has an actual low rg of 2.551 and differential of 0.040 when drilled pin down.

Rob, I know that. i was just trying to keep it simple. We both spend way too much time explaining how pin up/pin down is antiquated just to see it posted or said 50 times after that. But static weights will have an impact. When I can find the video showing a recent ball with static weights out of spec and the difference it makes I will post it. I've only seen that video in the Silver class so I may have to e-mail Ron to get the source/copy.

[bowl1820]

RoWhen I can find the video showing a recent ball with static weights out of spec and the difference it makes I will post it. I've only seen that video in the Silver class so I may have to e-mail Ron to get the source/copy.

Are you referring to this video which is a extreme example. Where they increased the static's by 3-4 times the legal limit?

It's posted in the video section.

[billf]

That was a lot shorter but close enough. Even at 3-4 times the legal limits to say static weight has zero bearing is a misnomer. To not have any limits could have some comical effects.

[Ishkabibble]

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn....ightsStudy.pdf