My thoughts are what good is the win if you had to cheat to get it? Even if nobody else knew I would know.
Discussion: Meet Root CauseOriginally Posted by LyalC52
I played in a league with blatent sandbaggers back in 2013. In 2013, 2014, and the first part of 2015 I played in leagues with less blatent sandbaggers. Now I'm in a pair of leagues where there seems to be less...but it's early. One alarming thing I've noticed is one of the blatent sandbaggers from 2013 is now on a "super team" in my Wednesday league. That team was carefully put together to win the league (along with 5-6 other teams that did the same including mine) and they are currently in first place. I will certainly be watching said player as the season progresses. Since the last time it happened (blatent sandbagging) the league was non-sanctioned...nobody raised a stink...but now that it's a sanctioned league...I'm not going to let them get away with it if that is still something they are doing.
One way I've found to alleviate some sandbagging is to have a lot of side pots. On Wednesdays we have;
- side pot (highest handicap score 1st and 3rd, highest scratch score 2nd game)
- SKINS (pot grows until only one person strikes out in the 10th or it reaches $500)
- mystery score
- 50/50
- BRACKETS
Brackets and Skins are the important ones because when a player gets the urge to just dump balls into the gutter to preserve their handicap...they really can't do it until the 2nd shot because striking out could be worth $$$. And if they are still alive in the brackets...they got a chance at $$...even if their team is struggling. So having these other payouts going on actually keeps individual bowlers trying their hardest when in other situations those bowlers might be focused on preserving handicap.
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My thoughts are what good is the win if you had to cheat to get it? Even if nobody else knew I would know.
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Seems like the people that do sandbag and win have in some way justified what they are doing, and that allows them to do what they are doing. It pretty much works the same way with most crime, they have justified in their mind why it's permissible or even required that they do these things, it's what allows them to bypass the normal inner conscious that would prevent most people from doing those things. Scientists discovered much of this over the years of interviewing serial killers and finding nearly all had justified why they had to do it.
The brackets skins and pots sound like an excellent way to help prevent sandbagging, how do you get all the sandbaggers to take part ?
Well we shouldn't have much bagging. In 9 weeks we have paid out $32,000 in pot money.
Last edited by fordman1; 10-27-2015 at 09:39 AM.
Sandbaggers want money. They can win the most in Vegas at sweeps (usually). But to not participate in side pots/skins/brackets....they are losing money every week. So they've done the math and realize that if they win one bracket a week for 35 weeks; thats $1000. Even if they enter 2 per week, they still clear $650. At Vegas, even best case scenario...they might win $400-$1200.
I'm trying to get vacant scores lowered to the point that it becomes unprofitable to have them for any length of time. My problem with persistent vacancies is that it doesn't actually hurt the team to have them - it helps, in fact. Two bowlers that always hit their average? Always get the same score and never have a bad night? Heck ya!
Drop their score to the point it becomes a real handicap and they'll find people to fill those spots. . .
While persistent vacancies might not hurt a team, they don't really help a team either. My team has been plagued with long running vacancies (1&2 players) for several seasons and it doesn't help. While vacancies don't have a bad night, they don't have good nights either. If your bowling bad, nobody is taking up the slack.
Now if you want to try a different vacancy score, you can try what the big men's league here did. They were complaining about teams having vacancies and came up with this:Drop their score to the point it becomes a real handicap and they'll find people to fill those spots. . .
"Vacancy score is a zero (0) with handicap."
Example:
Old vacancy score was 140 (Hdcp is 90% 0f 230), so you had 140gm + 81hdcp for a 221 hdcp game.
Using the zero vacancy score system, you got a "0" gm + 207 hdcp for a 207 hdcp game.
Everybody thought that was great.
Or you can use a vacancy score with zero handicap, USBC rules say a league can adopt a rule restricting handicap for a vacancy score.
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