Probable that more than half of Motiv banned balls exceeded specs

[Aslan]

Amyers...

The PBA has long since held the reputation that they take their "code of Conduct" very seriously. Much of the items Pete Weber was suspended and fined for back in the late 80s and early 90s were not specific rule violations. There was a bowler, might have been PDW, or maybe Troup or Hollman...might even have been before that...where a bowler got in an altercation at a bowling center bar over a debt some guy owed him. It wasn't even during an event...it was after the event was over...from what I recall. There isn't a "rule" in the book about about "not fighting about debt during off hours". That would be a silly rule. Like most sports, they have a very broad statement about the sport and general conduct.

Why do you think Ryan Ciminelli has been so quiet through all of this. I mean, he's a notorious whiner...so why has he said nothing? My educated GUESS....is he doesn't want a $1,000 fine. The PBA "discourages" players getting involved in those kinds of things.

Like the NFL....has no rule against punching women in elevators, murdering people in parking lots, or hitting kids with tree branches. YET...they still enforce their "rules" against players that do those things. Code of Conduct. Behavior that they (whatever the league) believe tarnishes the sport and the league. A company that knowingly and willfully tries to skirt USBC rules...and players that know this is going on...the PBA can't just sit back and shove their head in a hole like a cartoon ostrich. They can't fine Rash, and Machuga, and Fagan, and PDW for relatively minor code of conduct violations...then turn a blind eye to behavior that MAY have seriously impacted the outcome of matches.

I don't know how much Motiv is worth. Private company, their financial records aren't easy to get ahold of. But, my estimation they might do 15 million in gross revenue...maybe $960,000 net profit annually. The recall will cost about 1 million...I think closer to $750,000...so they probably can afford it. I'm sure the Wilburs have a decent "rainy day fund" to cover a 2016 that'll be closer to the Red than the Black. But I don't know for sure...I think they are more concerned with the 1-year suspension and the potential suits by competitors.

[Amyers]

Amyers...

The PBA has long since held the reputation that they take their "code of Conduct" very seriously. Much of the items Pete Weber was suspended and fined for back in the late 80s and early 90s were not specific rule violations. There was a bowler, might have been PDW, or maybe Troup or Hollman...might even have been before that...where a bowler got in an altercation at a bowling center bar over a debt some guy owed him. It wasn't even during an event...it was after the event was over...from what I recall. There isn't a "rule" in the book about about "not fighting about debt during off hours". That would be a silly rule. Like most sports, they have a very broad statement about the sport and general conduct.

Yes and all of those are things that could be considered personal conduct violations. Not equipment violations


Why do you think Ryan Ciminelli has been so quiet through all of this. I mean, he's a notorious whiner...so why has he said nothing? My educated GUESS....is he doesn't want a $1,000 fine. The PBA "discourages" players getting involved in those kinds of things.

Like the NFL....has no rule against punching women in elevators, murdering people in parking lots, or hitting kids with tree branches. YET...they still enforce their "rules" against players that do those things. Code of Conduct. Behavior that they (whatever the league) believe tarnishes the sport and the league. A company that knowingly and willfully tries to skirt USBC rules...and players that know this is going on...the PBA can't just sit back and shove their head in a hole like a cartoon ostrich. They can't fine Rash, and Machuga, and Fagan, and PDW for relatively minor code of conduct violations...then turn a blind eye to behavior that MAY have seriously impacted the outcome of matches.

When was the last time you seen an NFL player fined for using approved equipment?

I don't know how much Motiv is worth. Private company, their financial records aren't easy to get ahold of. But, my estimation they might do 15 million in gross revenue...maybe $960,000 net profit annually. The recall will cost about 1 million...I think closer to $750,000...so they probably can afford it. I'm sure the Wilburs have a decent "rainy day fund" to cover a 2016 that'll be closer to the Red than the Black. But I don't know for sure...I think they are more concerned with the 1-year suspension and the potential suits by competitors.

The original number I've seen floating around was the million dollar figure which I think they could withstand maybe but I've seen some people talking that with returns and website updates and shipping it could go north of 4 million if that's the case they are done.

Comments in red

[fordman1]

Maybe a stern warning would have been a better way of handling this with Motiv. The company could end up going out of business and how would that help Bowling or the USBC? All over something that can't be detected after a ball is drilled? Something that most say doesn't change the way a ball roles anyway. BS

[vdubtx]

Why do you think Ryan Ciminelli has been so quiet through all of this. I mean, he's a notorious whiner...so why has he said nothing? My educated GUESS....is he doesn't want a $1,000 fine. The PBA "discourages" players getting involved in those kinds of things.

He actually posted something on facebook about it right after USBC went public with it.

I just want to make a quick comment about the jackal line.. I'm sure more n more people will be wondering how I feel being beat twice by guys that happen to be throwing this ball on major shows... So to squash it now... it doesn't change that those guys didn't have this knowledge, they still beat me, and although it brought back some of the hurt that comes with losing on those shows.. It doesn't change anything.. Just motivates me a little bit more to keep knocking on the door. No pun intended. ‪#‎teamlefty‬ ‪#‎teamdv8‬ ‪#‎turbogrips‬ ‪#‎gottabelieveyoursiscoming‬

[Aslan]

Comments in red

As to how many players are fined for using approved equipment....there have been more than one that have chosen to wear something with a logo on it...or non-pink during breast cancer awareness week...minor stuff like that.

No other sports are as equipment dependent as bowling...so it's a hard comparison. But Nascar...it happens every season...almost every race...complaints about all kinds of equipment related nonsense.

He actually posted something on facebook about it right after USBC went public with it.

Like I said, I have a feeling....if he were allowed to say what he truly wants to say...no fear of being fined...he'd have said other things.

Ask him if he knows who sent the balls to the USBC. I doubt he'll answer....but I bet he knows. And he may even have been part of the group that did it.

And again, in that post, he "assumes" Gary and Graham didn't know. I've yet to see any statements from Graham or Gary that they "had no idea"...and Motiv....as I've said like 15 times now...specifically did NOT say....that they didn't know. They've said all kinds of things that are meant to make the public feel bad for them...but have yet to say whether it came as a surprise....other than the surprise that the USBC actually checked.

I purposely did NOT send a letter to Graham, Gary, nor Ryan requesting information. I feel that, due to the way the Code of Conduct is written, them merely responding could get them in trouble....and I don't want that. I don't want anyone to get in trouble...I just want some answers.

As to Fordman's comment....well, either we have rules or we don't. I'm a little tired of bowling companies and centers claiming they can't afford to do the right thing. If it's a dead sport...it's a dead sport. But I think it would set a MASSIVELY bad precedent if the USBC simply gave Motiv a 'wink wink' and let them continue business as usual. There are already way more bowlers that feel the USBC hasn't been doing their job and has been asleep at the wheel for far too long...this would only all but remove them in relevance completely. Like boxing and professional wrestling...once people lose faith in the integrity of the competition...the general public starts to lose interest.

[JasonNJ]

Another thing I found interesting when I was researching this...watch the two majors that Motiv athletes Gary Falkner and Graham Fach won. Watch the ball motion as it goes through the pin deck.

It "SEEMS" as though Scott Norton was making better shots as was Ciminelli...but the Jackal Carnage was hitting light in the pocket....but appeared to almost "accelerate" as it moved through the pins. All the other balls, when they hit light...deflected. The Jackal Carnage never deflected. If Falkner was anywhere near the pocket...the ball would power through and cause a lot of pin action.

I noticed the similar effect with Fach against Ciminelli. Ciminelli made better shots...but was struggling on the one lane. Fach's Jackal Carnage....again...almost accelerated as it moved through the pins...even though of his shots hit "light".

Even against E.J. Tackett...their fellow Motiv bowler. Tackett couldn't get either of his two weaker balls to stay right of the pocket. Maybe the lanes were more beat up over there....welcome to the disadvantage of being a RHer....but when Tackett pulled his shots...the ball went crazy left. If he tried to get it out to the right...it missed the pocket. Not saying Tackett deserved to win...he was really struggling...physically and mentally...it's just strange the way the Carnage was behaving...no deflection...and a ball that almost seemed to accelerate as it made contact with the pins. Not sure if that could be the result of the increased differential or not...probably not...but I had never see so many light hits carry for one bowler yet leave flat 7-pins for everyone else.

That's funny that you posted this. The very reason why I bought a Jackal Carnage because my brother in law has the Jackal and he's only a so so bowler and struggles with hitting his mark consistently but the majority of his strikes are brooklyn and light pocket hits with the Jackal. I can't believe the carry he gets with it.

And as for my experience with the Carnage, it's a strong ball and I think it has helped with carry on light pocket hits but I actually get more pin action and bowl better with my Haywire.

[Aslan]

That's funny that you posted this. The very reason why I bought a Jackal Carnage because my brother in law has the Jackal and he's only a so so bowler and struggles with hitting his mark consistently but the majority of his strikes are brooklyn and light pocket hits with the Jackal. I can't believe the carry he gets with it.

And as for my experience with the Carnage, it's a strong ball and I think it has helped with carry on light pocket hits but I actually get more pin action and bowl better with my Haywire.

Yeah...it was weird. Ciminelli made some great shots. His ball was doing exactly what you would think....when he struck....the ball exitied between the 8 and 9 pins...it looked picture perfect. Granted, Ciminelli, when he was even just a "little" off...he couldn't carry the 7-pin. Norton...same thing. He was bowling extremely well....pocket hit after pocket hit...but couldn't carry. Yet you watch Graham and Gary...and those Carnages were hitting light...and it just seemed like in slow motion...they were actually accelerating towards the 5-pin...and through it....but not exiting through the middle of the 8 and 9. It was just weird to watch.

The other really annoying parts of those telecasts was Randy Pederson drooling all over Mookie Betts and obsessing about petting cats for what seemed like an eternity. Can we have "less" color commentary? I miss Earl Anthony. Somebody who knows the game and can provide input...but not like a clown at a kid's birthday party.

[billf]

https://www.11thframe.com/news/article/8315

I'm not a technical guy so can't confirm or refute the data but they are saying at least 50% and could be up to 90% of the two balls exceeded the differential specs.

If that's the case, it was not quality control but something more...

This article was by a Storm staffer that didn't talk to the USBC or Motiv and didn't have access to the documents about the specific testing.