Something I've been thinking about

[fortheloveofbowling]

We all can take many bowling balls we have and say play straight up 5 and make the ball hit the 7. That means they all hook the same amount but start going towards the 7 at different points. It depends on the point you want the ball to do the most of its motion that matters. The pearl ball you have is better for inside angle because the late motion is going to create motion at the back where you need it to get the 10 out. The duller surface ball is better suited for straighter angles for a more controlled motion. Of course you can look at it just the opposite but all depends on the motion you are trying to create and the place on the lane you are playing.

[bowl1820]

Are you saying that you're aware of wood lanes that have less "traction" than synthetics?

Yes, you could easily have wood lanes with slicker "conditions" than synthetic lanes.

I've bowled on older wood lanes (well maintained and badly maintained ones), newly resurface ones, old wood lanes with a overlay (the worst combo you can bowl on), synthetics mounted on top of wood lanes, synthetics mounted directly to the lane foundation, several different brands of synthetics (there all different).

So have seen many different conditions.

It was my understanding that wood is on the extreme end of that spectrum.

Wood lanes are softer and have more texture than synthetics which are harder, balls will tend to hook sooner and have less backend (the reaction evens out). The Older wood lanes are, affects how they hold the oil, plus the heads are usually worn (Speed and loft helps then).

Synthetics are harder (but there are differences between brands in hardness, textures, etc. also how old they are.) and that lets the ball slide easier down the lane. That's why you want the ball to read the lane (see the friction) earlier, so you use less speed, less loft, a more aggressive ball etc.

Synthetics when wet are very slick, but when they breakdown or dry to begin with, they can hook more than wood. That's why you have to look at the lane conditions being used.

I mean, sure...dry plywood would be less slick than wood lanes...but I've only seen synthetic lanes behave "drier" than wood lanes once...and that was after a Thanksgiving weekend when it was fairly clear they hadn't been oiled since the Wednesday before the Thanksgiving weekend.

Bowl knows more than me...I just have never seen it.

What you just said there .

Having limited experience on different lane types and conditions isn't a bad thing, you got start some place. It's just when someone starts making general conclusions based on that limited knowledge base that things get out of whack.

[Aslan]

What you just said there .

Having limited experience on different lane types and conditions isn't a bad thing, you got start some place. It's just when someone starts making general conclusions based on that limited knowledge base that things get out of whack.

In my defense, I have bowled on wood extensively (many here never have) and I have bowled in about 15 different centers over the last < 6 months. Also, wood lanes are getting to be rare...so trying to talk about what arsenal to use and how to use it becomes that much more complicated.

I've watched Amyers's videos. I see similarities in his game to my old game. We both bowl on wood (or at least have). And I remember asking some of the same questions 4 months ago he is askling now. I had trouble getting backend movement and bought a solid coverstock ball. I immediately was frustrated because it didn't seem to make a difference (not at 20mph with a 12-15ft loft). I've also strived to play the inside line...get a ball to go out to the break point and "snap" back like in the videos...I have not found that game yet.

So when he talks about switching from a Pearl to a hybrid symmetric (I switched from a hybrid to a solid symmetric) and thinking that will give him that "snap"...I'm just offering caution that in my experience...the coverstock/surface change caused the ball to hook "earlier"...and I didn't get that "snap" I was after. I'm hoping a switch to a Pearl, assymetric with a stronger core will help me...coupled with trying to develop a better release...but we'll see. All I can do is offer him my perspective...ultimately he chooses his own path based on all of our inputs. I've already been on record suggesting he weigh yours and Robs and vdub's higher than the rest of us.

[rv driver]

In my defense, I have bowled on wood extensively (many here never have) and I have bowled in about 15 different centers over the last < 6 months. Also, wood lanes are getting to be rare...so trying to talk about what arsenal to use and how to use it becomes that much more complicated.

I've watched Amyers's videos. I see similarities in his game to my old game. We both bowl on wood (or at least have). And I remember asking some of the same questions 4 months ago he is askling now. I had trouble getting backend movement and bought a solid coverstock ball. I immediately was frustrated because it didn't seem to make a difference (not at 20mph with a 12-15ft loft). I've also strived to play the inside line...get a ball to go out to the break point and "snap" back like in the videos...I have not found that game yet.

So when he talks about switching from a Pearl to a hybrid symmetric (I switched from a hybrid to a solid symmetric) and thinking that will give him that "snap"...I'm just offering caution that in my experience...the coverstock/surface change caused the ball to hook "earlier"...and I didn't get that "snap" I was after. I'm hoping a switch to a Pearl, assymetric with a stronger core will help me...coupled with trying to develop a better release...but we'll see. All I can do is offer him my perspective...ultimately he chooses his own path based on all of our inputs. I've already been on record suggesting he weigh yours and Robs and vdub's higher than the rest of us.

The way I understand it, the pearl has more of a snap than a solid. The solid should roll sooner.


Unless I'm mistaken, that is...

[Amyers]

The way I understand it, the pearl has more of a snap than a solid. The solid should roll sooner.


Unless I'm mistaken, that is...

You are correct solids tend to roll/hook sooner than pearls. A solid may actually move more boards but its over a longer sweep.

[Aslan]

You are correct solids tend to roll/hook sooner than pearls. A solid may actually move more boards but its over a longer sweep.

Thats my experience. Granted, I've reduced speed and RPMs significantly…but my pearl doesn't have much backend at all (diff. of .017), my hybrid (polished) goes longer and has a moderate, yet smooth (symmetric core) hook on the backend. And my solid has a very wide hook out to the right gutter and back.

The best way to describe it is the solid almost forms a backwards capital "C" and the hybrid is more like a backwards, upside-down capital "J". Unfortunately, neither are able to start far inside (left), go through the oil to the break point and then "slam" back into the pocket (hockey stick). The best I can do is to move slightly inside…throw up the middle…and allow the ball to go out 5-10 boards from the oil and then back into the pocket. But I'm not very consistent with that shot as of yet.

[RobLV1]

You've got cover material (solid, pearl, hybrid), surface (polished, dull, or somewhere in between), core (rg and differential), and layout (changes the rg and differential), and yet so many of you are trying to put everything on cover material. It's just not that simple! All of the elements contribute to ball motion. If you don't take all of them into account, you'll never even begin to understand modern bowling.

[MICHAEL]

You've got cover material (solid, pearl, hybrid), surface (polished, dull, or somewhere in between), core (rg and differential), and layout (changes the rg and differential), and yet so many of you are trying to put everything on cover material. It's just not that simple! All of the elements contribute to ball motion. If you don't take all of them into account, you'll never even begin to understand modern bowling.

I think one of The MOST important things is, HOW YOUR ball is drilled!!! I personally can't think of ONE more important aspect of a balls performance then the various pitches, and measurements, including pin position.

I have been experimenting with different grips, and pin positions, and

A GAME CHANGER for ICE, was and is the Tri-Grip!

MIGHT NOT WORK for everyone one, but EVERYONE I KNOW around here that has had BP's Pro Shop drill this method has been CRAZY about it!

MUCH MORE comfortable, Ball fells lighter due to distribution of weight in hand, better alignment, thumb comes out quicker, and more accuracy!

There I've said it again.... ( sounds like a song by some one lol)

So many things go into CREATING THE PERFECT STORM, (no pun intended)!

But as I have said before and still stand by it, GIVE JASON ANYBODIES BALL, Any weight, any span as long as he can get his fingers in the hole, and that Dude will throw a 200 game or higher....

Some how he compensates all the above factors to make who anybody's ball work for HIM! HE HAS THAT GIFT, I have talked about!

Everything mentioned, ball specks, weight, and how its drilled is VERY IMPORTANT, and only experimentation will find that Golden Ball as I have with my Deadly Aim! It takes time, trial and error, but the combination of all mentioned can unleash a MONSTER!!

[RobLV1]

Michael:

I agree that how a ball is drilled is very important, but you have to remember to separate the two factors: how it fits, and how it is laid out. The fit is paramount. If the ball doesn't fit the hand of the bowler, nothing else about it really matters. The layout, on the other hand, does nothing more than determine how the core is positioned within the ball. This position determines the actual numbers (rg and differential) as the numbers that are supplied by the manufacturer is for an undrilled ball.

In the end, there are only two factors in bowling balls that determine how it reacts (specific to the release of the bowler): resistance and friction. All of the elements, cover material, surface, core specifications, and layout relate to these two things. The low rg, and by association, the layout determine the amount of resistance, while everything else determines the amount of friction. That's what I was trying to get at in my last post. All of these things work together, and no one thing is more important than another. The only consideration in reality is this: the cover material, the core numbers, and the layout are all set - they cannot be easily changed. The one thing that can be modified very easily, countless times, is the surface finish. If you don't have a set of abralon pads in your bag at all times, you are seriously missing the boat in terms of tailoring your ball reaction prior to the start of competition.

[MICHAEL]

Michael:

I agree that how a ball is drilled is very important, but you have to remember to separate the two factors: how it fits, and how it is laid out. The fit is paramount. If the ball doesn't fit the hand of the bowler, nothing else about it really matters. The layout, on the other hand, does nothing more than determine how the core is positioned within the ball. This position determines the actual numbers (rg and differential) as the numbers that are supplied by the manufacturer is for an undrilled ball.

In the end, there are only two factors in bowling balls that determine how it reacts (specific to the release of the bowler): resistance and friction. All of the elements, cover material, surface, core specifications, and layout relate to these two things. The low rg, and by association, the layout determine the amount of resistance, while everything else determines the amount of friction. That's what I was trying to get at in my last post. All of these things work together, and no one thing is more important than another. The only consideration in reality is this: the cover material, the core numbers, and the layout are all set - they cannot be easily changed. The one thing that can be modified very easily, countless times, is the surface finish. If you don't have a set of abralon pads in your bag at all times, you are seriously missing the boat in terms of tailoring your ball reaction prior to the start of competition.

I agree with the above, ( for what little its worth), not having nearly the education and training you have Rob in the field of bowling! Bowling is a very complex game when really getting down to the nitty-gritty!

And although I have said the GIFTED RULE,,, LOL,,,, knowledge is power even to the GIFTED!