What would you do?

[mc_runner]

2) I wanted to switch teams this season due to a "drama problem" with one of our female bowlers. The team captain ended up ditching the drama queen and keeping me. But I found out from the league secretary...that in order for me to switch teams after a certain point in the season, I needed approval from my team captain, the other team's captain, and the league President or Secretary or vice-President. I did know that. It makes sense though.

This one's pretty common and in most of the leagues I've bowled around here, except our by-laws usually say it needs to be voted on and approved by a majority of all team captains in addition to the approvals by team captains of the 2 teams and officers. Makes sense if you think bout it, it protects against someone establishing a low average then moving to another team. Or vice versa. I imagine at some point there was a reason this rule was put into place, and is as common as it is.

This only tends to be in money/more serious leagues though, the casual leagues don't really seem to care. I remember needing a win to go into a rolloff a few years back, and the team bowling against us used a different team's full-time member as a "sub" (the only league rule impacting that was if the other team had a full team, their extra person could sub elsewhere if they showed up). They stomped us. I was mad at the time but since no money and such, I decided it wasn't worth it to even bring up again.

[Briantime]

The problem is, how fun is something if you know it's unfair?

Would you use a slot machine if you knew it never actually paid out?

Would you go watch a sporting event where you already knew the outcome?

If someone was playing cards with you...but had an extra deck in their pocket, would you still play?

I know you'll see these as extreme examples, but once a sport loses it's "fairness"...it's no longer a "sport". It's just an "exercise"...something to "do" when you have nothing else to do.

I can beat you bowling every single time if I can simply change the scores at will. You score a 264...I change my scores and get a 266. I miss a single-pin...I pretend I picked it up. I just decide that splits for me are automatic conversions and for you, automatic misses. I don't think you'd want to play very long. Even if you're really, really bored...you'd get annoyed that the playing field isn't level.

What I find interesting is...there are some things we talk about on these boards...where people are in general agreement that rules are rules and rules should be enforced. In other situations, there are many of the same people claiming the rules are silly. I think each person decides for themselves how important rules are.

Common rule violations I see almost every week during lane play:

1) Application of a foreign substance to bowling shoes (powder).
2) Use of non-approved cleaners/polishes or re-surfacing balls during play.
3) Not wearing bowling shoes.
4) Crossing over the foul line during shot delivery.
5) Use of bowling balls outside USBC specifications.

As to #1..many bowlers have no idea they're not supposed to do that. The ones that do, don't care.
As to #2, a rule that is often enforced at the PBA level...but not at the amateur levels.
As to #3, it's usually a bowling center rule...but often times it's ignored by the "planters" that don't slide.
As to #4, 2 out of 3 bowling centers I bowl at turn off the foul line buzzer or it doesn't work.
As to #5, like I said before...most pro shops don't actually weigh balls after drilling to see if they need balance holes. I'd bet roughly 1/4 of the balls on league night at most centers would fail.

Are these "big deals"? Probably not. The first one is...because those that plant don't realize how slippery you can make an approach for those that do slide. And those that do slide don't understand how dangerous applying that powder is to those that plant. I've even seen some people apply it "knowing" it would mess with the other team. It got so bad at one point, the President made a rule that if powder was laying around in the bowling area...the team could forfeit a game....which didn't really stop people from applying it to their shoes outside the bowling area...but they got sick of people falling and hurting themselves.

I guess I come at this from a different point of view.

With the exception of something in the extreme or that might injure someone, it really does not matter to me what someone else is doing in a league because...brace yourself...my ultimate goal is not winning, or even competing. If it was, I may feel differently about it, but I often see rules violations griped about on this and other forums that bear little or no impact on the final result. In that case, to me, people are just never going to have a good time bowling if they are preoccupied with those things. And, if it is not fun, why do it?

My fun does not depend on others knowing and following the rule book.

[bowl1820]

We had a "rule" issue come up twice...thought I'd mention it...just FYI.

1) 4-person mixed teams.
One team was missing 2 bowlers and got two high average subs. The problem was, in a mixed league...you usually need at least ONE female bowler. And if you get subs...a male sub can't bowl for the female bowler.

That is all dependent on exactly how the league rules are written.

In a true mixed league (USBC rule 100b. Mixed), teams can be made up of all men or all women or any combination there of. Also a substitute or replacement may be of either gender unless otherwise provided by league rules.

So unless it's specified in the league rules who can sub for who, then men can sub for women.

2) I wanted to switch teams this season due to a "drama problem" with one of our female bowlers. The team captain ended up ditching the drama queen and keeping me. But I found out from the league secretary...that in order for me to switch teams after a certain point in the season, I needed approval from my team captain, the other team's captain, and the league President or Secretary or vice-President. I did know that. It makes sense though.

Just a note: Transferring to another team is covered by USBC Rule 107b (unless the league makes it's own rule.)

107b. Transferring Team Membership
Unless otherwise provided by league rule, a bowler listed on a team’s roster and whose scores have
counted, may transfer to another team in the league during the season provided:
1. Adult leagues: Two-thirds of the league’s team captains agree to the transfer. This provision does
not apply to USBC closed leagues, or to any league which adopts its own rule to govern transfers.

[Mike White]

I guess I come at this from a different point of view.

With the exception of something in the extreme or that might injure someone, it really does not matter to me what someone else is doing in a league because...brace yourself...my ultimate goal is not winning, or even competing. If it was, I may feel differently about it, but I often see rules violations griped about on this and other forums that bear little or no impact on the final result. In that case, to me, people are just never going to have a good time bowling if they are preoccupied with those things. And, if it is not fun, why do it?

My fun does not depend on others knowing and following the rule book.

And that is the direction league bowling is taking... Circling the drain.

[Mike White]

We had a "rule" issue come up twice...thought I'd mention it...just FYI.

1) 4-person mixed teams.
One team was missing 2 bowlers and got two high average subs. The problem was, in a mixed league...you usually need at least ONE female bowler. And if you get subs...a male sub can't bowl for the female bowler.

Our team didn't know that until afterwards...and didn't protest. But, after getting stomped the first game...we checked and then agreed as a team to let it go this time...but not next time.

We had a dispute similar in one of the Senior leagues.

On the day the next season started, someone from the local association attended to meeting to explain the meaning of a "mixed league".

A mixed league does not mean a male and a female on every team.

It just means there is at least one male, and at least one female in the league.

Oddly enough the dispute came up at the end of the previous season, about a team that wanted to be all female.

The logic in their case was due to females having a longer life span, finding enough males old enough to bowl in the league, who were still physically able to bowl was becoming more difficult.

[Briantime]

And that is the direction league bowling is taking... Circling the drain.

People bowling for the fun and love of the game is the end of league bowling? Really?

[classygranny]

People bowling for the fun and love of the game is the end of league bowling? Really?

No, people not caring if the rules are followed or not - making an unlevel playing field.

When we started our Monday evening, the first night a guy on the opposite team knocked the 10 pin over after the ball went in the gutter. He wouldn't change the score - said he "planned it that way". Told his teammate to back him (I have very good hearing) and we got into a scrap over it until the secretary had to intervene and he changed the score, but "protested".

Later in the league, I saw him do the same thing - he didn't change the score, and no one on their lanes said anything. I told one of the other teams members and he said he didn't see it so never said anything.

This, in my opinion is against the rules....and cheating. Any intentional breaking of the rules is considered cheating in my humble opinion.

[Mike White]

No, people not caring if the rules are followed or not - making an unlevel playing field.

When we started our Monday evening, the first night a guy on the opposite team knocked the 10 pin over after the ball went in the gutter. He wouldn't change the score - said he "planned it that way". Told his teammate to back him (I have very good hearing) and we got into a scrap over it until the secretary had to intervene and he changed the score, but "protested".

Later in the league, I saw him do the same thing - he didn't change the score, and no one on their lanes said anything. I told one of the other teams members and he said he didn't see it so never said anything.

This, in my opinion is against the rules....and cheating. Any intentional breaking of the rules is considered cheating in my humble opinion.

Aslan do you hear that?

[RobLV1]

An update:

At the time that we pointed out to the league secretary that it was a league rule that the other team notify a league officer and the opposing team of their intention to miss league and make up, we were told by the secretary that we could "leave and not bowl, but it's your responsibility to contact the other team and schedule a makeup at their convenience." Really.!?! We bowled anyway, and informed the secretary the we would be filing a protest with the local association. Two days later, the league President called our team captain and told him that they had decided to give us the opportunity to throw out our scores and bowl the other team head to head the next morning (Sunday). We opted to do this and re-bowled the next morning. We won two of three and totals. Last night, we were informed that the league officers were in error and that the other team had protested with the local USBC and were told that since we bowled, our scores would have to count.

Here's the problem we have with this entire scenario: the other team did not follow the rule about informing us of their intention to miss bowling and make-up the game, the League Secretary was not even aware of the rule, the League Secretary and the League President was not aware of the USBC rule that games could not be re-bowled for any reason, and we gave up our Sunday morning for nothing. The bottom line is that we not only were aware of the league rule and followed it, did what were told to do, and ended up losing three points. Before any of you start in about being petty and cut-throat over three points, let me assure you that this is not the case. We could care less about the three points. What we do care about is the fact that we have league officers that are not aware of the rules, and are afraid to enforce them once they are made aware of them. In the case of the League Secretary, he still refuses to acknowledge any wrong-doing on his part at all despite the fact that he has not enforced the league rule all year.

[mc_runner]

Time to vote in a new secretary next year.