Spare shooting with plastic

[Aslan]

From Rob Mautner's Bowling Coach website...


[I]To this let me respond that there are very, very few professional bowlers who choose to do this, a those guys are a lot more consistent with a lot more hand positions, and a whole lot more ball speed than these “old school” league bowlers. Now that I have offended a whole lot of bowlers out there, :

I think we have to be very careful using the argument…"this is what the pros do so we should all do that!" I realize it's a harder argument in bowling than other sports because the difference between a pro and average bowler is at least in appearance closer…but there are 100 things any one pro bowler does that you would never, never teach a youth bowler to do. They have long approaches, massive revs, immensely high backswings…and are using top of the line specially drilled equipment.

And as I said…when you have a strike ball with THAT MUCH HOOK…I think a spare ball is necessary. But most bowlers don't have that. And the ones that do (thumbless, etc…) wouldn't benefit from a "spare ball" unless they change to a more traditional shot/stroke for spares.

I just think it's not the greatest argument to say "X is a pro…X is good…I want to be good…so I'll imitate X". If ya want to…go ahead. But first you have to pick who to emulate. I've tried to emulate WRW…the 2nd best bowler in history. But I've slowly learned…that emulating a pro bowler tends to work better if you are already a good bowler…otherwise it can create some bad habits.

[Aslan]

I shoulve linked aslan to rob earlier. He pretty much answers and goes against all of aslans old school thinking that i dont have answers for because im no coach

I think he's a great coach and has some really great information…especially in that article. But he IS very, very far from me in terms of beliefs. He's actually quite far from most coaches I've worked with as well. Rob is a very "equipment oriented" kind of bowler/coach. Most coaches I've worked with are more "approach oriented" coaches. Even here on this website…the very knowledgeable (and moderator to the stars) Bowl1820 when reading about my approach issues and my debate over getting a different ball…echoed my coach and Mike White in that "the ball isn't the problem…it's your approach and timing. A new ball isn't going to do anything."

And as painful as that is to hear…they are 99.6% correct. Rob Mautner may disagree….he may say that any bowler with any style can simply find the perfect ball, drilled the perfect way, with just the right surface….and BAMM…300 game! And in theory…thats true. If a bowler can consistently hit a target…with the same approach (bad or good)…theoretically you can make a ball go to the pocket. But is that the best coaching approach…to build a ball around a person's bad approach? Or is it better to work on their approach, give them a decent ball…then show them how to adjust.

I just got done working with Barry Asher…top 50 bowlers in history…not one time did I hear him say, "Whoa…hold up…thats a spare…where's your spare ball?" Not once did I hear him say, "Okay…I see where your problem is…I have a ball that can fix that."

I think Rob has some interesting ideas…I like the article…but I disagree with his overall mindset that the person with the most bowling balls is going to be the better bowler. Although…Iceman is the greatest bowler I know….and he does have a LOT of bowling balls…so

[bowl1820]

Your right I agree with Mike, your problems are the physical part of your game. You should be concentrating on fixing that, instead arguing all these equipment issues.

And I agree with him where he tells you "That's a lot of opinion, backed up with very little experience." You barely know any of the basic's and you go around condemning the knowledge and experience of people who have been doing this a lot longer than you.

You read thing's that people write and read things into them they didn't say and take totally different meanings from what they said.

Like where you comment on Robs "To this let me respond that there are very, very few professional bowlers who choose to do this......"

You totally miss read what he was saying.
He was saying how house bowlers who are not as good as pros, are using the hardest to use ball they have. To shoot their spares. Why Because they think they are accurate and can “flatten it out” and they are missing spares all the time.

And pros who are good and accurate use the simplest ball to use to pick up spares. Why because it's simpler and easier to use, not because they are just better bowlers.

And he's not even implying you should copy everything the pro's do.

But I think all this is falling on deaf ears, (it's Ball99999 deja vu)

[J Anderson]

From Rob Mautner's Bowling Coach website...


let me add that there is another reason to carry a plastic spare ball; one that most bowlers don’t even consider. Everyone once in a while, even the best bowler may find himself totally lost on a pair of lanes. This often happens when bowling on the end pairs in most any bowling center. In those instances, using your plastic spare ball for your strike shot can be a viable option. Consider this, even with maximum loss of carry, if you are accurate you can get a plastic ball to the pocket, pick up your single pin spares, and bowl a very comfortable 190-200 game. Isn’t this preferable to struggling to find a shot that isn’t there and bowling 160 with lots of splits?

I know absolutely ZERO bowlers that would actually do that. I agree with him on that point…but given the ego-mania that bowling has become…nobody other than those that only throw one plastic ball (usually newer players or the very old) will ever put their strike ball away…they'll throw a 99 and switch to 3-5 different strike balls before ever even considering a plastic ball as a strike ball.

Wait till you join a sport league, especially if it's a summer one, where a lot of fairly good house bowlers will use it as a practice league to try to improve their games. Not many will actually do it because of peer pressure, but almost every one runs into a pattern that they either just can't figure out or that's a really bad match for the equipment they broughtand the thought runs through their mind " I might as well be throwing my spare ball straight t the pocket."

[J Anderson]

I think we have to be very careful using the argument…"this is what the pros do so we should all do that!" I realize it's a harder argument in bowling than other sports because the difference between a pro and average bowler is at least in appearance closer…but there are 100 things any one pro bowler does that you would never, never teach a youth bowler to do. They have long approaches, massive revs, immensely high backswings…and are using top of the line specially drilled equipment.

And as I said…when you have a strike ball with THAT MUCH HOOK…I think a spare ball is necessary. But most bowlers don't have that. And the ones that do (thumbless, etc…) wouldn't benefit from a "spare ball" unless they change to a more traditional shot/stroke for spares.

I just think it's not the greatest argument to say "X is a pro…X is good…I want to be good…so I'll imitate X". If ya want to…go ahead. But first you have to pick who to emulate. I've tried to emulate WRW…the 2nd best bowler in history. But I've slowly learned…that emulating a pro bowler tends to work better if you are already a good bowler…otherwise it can create some bad habits.

"but there are 100 things any one pro bowler does that you would never, never teach a youth bowler to do."
I'm not sure it's a 100 things, but if you change youth to beginner, I basically agree with you. There are a few pros, usually older ones like Brian Voss, Parker Bohn III, and Steve Jaros, whose techniques are textbook.

However, if you focus on the things that almost every pro does, from having a pre-shot routine to shooting single pins spares straight with a polyester ball, you have fundamentals that can be taught to almost anyone. And it's a whole lot easier to sell youth bowlers on doing something the way a famous professional does it than to say well this is what the coaching manual says to do, even though they're both the same method.

[MICHAEL]

J Mr Anderson,,, you have me all pumped up ready to take on a sports league!! Not sure how well I will do, but the challenge will be what's it all about for me!! I like to learn new things, and this will be ONE HUGE HOOT!!!! Come on Summer!!!!

[Aslan]

Your right I agree with Mike, your problems are the physical part of your game. You should be concentrating on fixing that, instead arguing all these equipment issues.

And I agree with him where he tells you "That's a lot of opinion, backed up with very little experience." You barely know any of the basic's and you go around condemning the knowledge and experience of people who have been doing this a lot longer than you.

Point taken. Apparently I'll have to increase my average before being allowed to have an opinion. Noted.

You read thing's that people write and read things into them they didn't say and take totally different meanings from what they said.

Like where you comment on Robs "To this let me respond that there are very, very few professional bowlers who choose to do this......"

I think you misunderstood what I meant. Rob said (and I quoted it) that there is another reason to carry a plastic/spare ball…and that is that at times when you feel "lost"…you can always pull out your spare ball and use it as a strike ball. My comment was related to that…I see ZERO bowlers doing that. I see many struggle on league night…and not ONE has ever just started throwing their spare ball as their strike ball.

And he's not even implying you should copy everything the pro's do.

Some people are…I was commenting on that mentality. I've heard it stated from NUMEROUS site users. Yet when Iceman points out that nearly zero pros wear a wrist support….the same folks will say, "I don't care what the pros do, I like to wear it so I wear it." It's hypocritical in my opinion.

But I think all this is falling on deaf ears, (it's Ball99999 deja vu)

Nope…loud and clear.

[Aslan]

Wait till you join a sport league, especially if it's a summer one, where a lot of fairly good house bowlers will use it as a practice league to try to improve their games. Not many will actually do it because of peer pressure, but almost every one runs into a pattern that they either just can't figure out or that's a really bad match for the equipment they broughtand the thought runs through their mind " I might as well be throwing my spare ball straight t the pocket."

I think we are in agreement. What Rob is saying, nearly zero bowlers will ever do…primarily because of ego/peer pressure.

[Aslan]

"but there are 100 things any one pro bowler does that you would never, never teach a youth bowler to do."
I'm not sure it's a 100 things, but if you change youth to beginner, I basically agree with you. There are a few pros, usually older ones like Brian Voss, Parker Bohn III, and Steve Jaros, whose techniques are textbook.

However, if you focus on the things that almost every pro does, from having a pre-shot routine to shooting single pins spares straight with a polyester ball, you have fundamentals that can be taught to almost anyone. And it's a whole lot easier to sell youth bowlers on doing something the way a famous professional does it than to say well this is what the coaching manual says to do, even though they're both the same method.

I agree with that. But like you said, when someone says, "do it like the pros do it"…I think a great many of them don't understand how very, very different bowlers approaches can be.

One (of many) examples:

The technique I was taught was to hold the ball at chin level to start…then push it out as you make your first step.

When I had my first lesson, the pro said to hold it at belt level and just drop it as you take your first step…no need to push it out. Then I went to a clinic…and the guy said to hold it chest level…and push it out with my first step.

Yet…I've watched about 75 different bowlers…and I've seen the ball start at just about EVERY spot imaginable! Some have it at chin level, some at chest level, some at belt level. Some hold it to the side rather than directly in front. One guy (bonus points if you know who) actually started with the ball parallel to his leg and started his pendulum swing forward, THEN took the first step.

So yeah…pros are pros…if all else fails; take a look at their approach and learn from it. And you're right, Parker Bohn…great, great template of an approach. But I stop short of using the arguement (most pros do X, so you should too). I mean, I've seen pro bowlers open their hand to the right (righties) in their backswing…with a backswing WAY above their head…a 5-6 step approach…many things I wouldn't necessarily recommend to a newcomer to the sport.

[bowl1820]

Point taken. Apparently I'll have to increase my average before being allowed to have an opinion. Noted.

Your perfectly welcome to have a opinion and post.

It's just the way you do it with that "I know better than you attitude" that people have a problem with.