Question for the ARSEnal experts out there!

[Mike White]

`

If it weren't for Iceman's posts....that would be the most insane thing I've read on this site.

SO let me get this straight;

Your premise is, that knowing about the physical characteristics of a bowling ball is not only unnecessary, but in some ways detrimental to your game.

And your proof of this is 2-fold:
1) Knowing 3 numbers and 3 things about coverstocks is on par with a 5-year old learning quantum physics.
2) You could NOT know things yet still defeat a beginning bowler.

And...your idea of a fair bet to prove this would be for you to fly across the country and despite a sizeable advantage in handicap...and attempt to defeat a beginning bowler scratch...and IF YOU WIN...said beginning bowler will pay you in excess of $2,000??

Wow!

How are you going to get the bowling balls to Cali? I mean, the plane requires a great deal of folks to know a great deal about Physics and numbers and air speeds....all things that under Mudpuppy logic are "too much information". Just fly the plane on "feel". I mean, a good mechanic will know if it's broke and a good pilot knows what buttons to press and all that. But what about at the counter when you put your bowling balls and suitcase on the square metally thing and it flashes random numbers followed by an "L" and a "B"? Are they going to expect you to understand the concept of weight and gravity? Can't they just lift it up and if it "feels" too heavy...it's too heavy. Why the need for all those numbers and gadgets??

Sorry Mr. Pup...but I never bet with money I don't have. And if I DID have $2000...and you actually had $2000...I still wouldn't just **** it away without being given a decent amount of handicap. Oh wait...handicap involves addition of numbers...so there goes that idea.

This conversation is now boring me.

Typical Aslan, focusing on the numbers when there is a Viking/Amazon/Other woman involved.

[vdubtx]

Typical Aslan, focusing on the numbers when there is a Viking/Amazon/Other woman involved.

Or even the furry ICEMAN!!

[dpatrickv]

Wait...50 pins of handicap is not a decent amount of handicap?

Also, his point is that one does not need to do the exact details and numbers of each ball in his aresenal. Only needs to know exactly how one reacts on a certain lane condition and the differences between them. As I have said before, I'll put money down that most PBA PROS couldnt tell you why they switch balls in terms of RG and such. Chris Barnes could, but CB is a freaking bowling encyclopedia.

Once again, you are overthinking everything.

[Mudpuppy]

Free trip to Ca, and I will WHAT??? The Free trip sounded ok, but I am not a miracle worker!!! Was that a round trip mudpuppy? I would rather bowl Aslan! Let him see the furry of THE ICEMAN on a bowling lane!! Might even give him my 3rd 300 in less then 8 months on a WOOD Lane of his choice!

Of course roundtrip, lol. First class too - nothing but the best for Iceman.

`

If it weren't for Iceman's posts....that would be the most insane thing I've read on this site.

SO let me get this straight;

Your premise is, that knowing about the physical characteristics of a bowling ball is not only unnecessary, but in some ways detrimental to your game.

And your proof of this is 2-fold:
1) Knowing 3 numbers and 3 things about coverstocks is on par with a 5-year old learning quantum physics.
2) You could NOT know things yet still defeat a beginning bowler.

And...your idea of a fair bet to prove this would be for you to fly across the country and despite a sizeable advantage in handicap...and attempt to defeat a beginning bowler scratch...and IF YOU WIN...said beginning bowler will pay you in excess of $2,000??

Wow!

How are you going to get the bowling balls to Cali? I mean, the plane requires a great deal of folks to know a great deal about Physics and numbers and air speeds....all things that under Mudpuppy logic are "too much information". Just fly the plane on "feel". I mean, a good mechanic will know if it's broke and a good pilot knows what buttons to press and all that. But what about at the counter when you put your bowling balls and suitcase on the square metally thing and it flashes random numbers followed by an "L" and a "B"? Are they going to expect you to understand the concept of weight and gravity? Can't they just lift it up and if it "feels" too heavy...it's too heavy. Why the need for all those numbers and gadgets??

Sorry Mr. Pup...but I never bet with money I don't have. And if I DID have $2000...and you actually had $2000...I still wouldn't just **** it away without being given a decent amount of handicap. Oh wait...handicap involves addition of numbers...so there goes that idea.

This conversation is now boring me.

1. I said a 4 year old
2. I would only need 1 ball and seeing as my balls are like my children it would fly in 1st class with me
3. I actually have $2,000
4. You have a distinct advantage on your home lanes that you bowl 1,000,000 practice games a week but can't figure out why you can't afford more than 1 league. I mean being from Michigan, in your own words, is handicap enough - we should bowl scratch based on your derogatory comments of my great state.
5. How exactly do you correlate everything in life to what I said about bowling - I didn't say a pilot should fly a 747 on feel. Nor should a brain surgeon just feel around trying to find the source of the problem in his patient's brain. Talk about mothership of all assumptions. We all know what that is. You are putting words / ideas out there that don't exist.
6. So you talk about house league bowlers carrying a 4-9 ball arsenal and changing balls when you feel they shouldn't - the wind shifts, they yank a shot, their beer isn't cold, etc. but yet you say ineffective knowledge couldn't possibly be detrimental to your game? So it's ok to know RG and coverstock materials or as you say 3 numbers and 3 things and just forget about form, consistency, mechanics, repeatability, adjustments, etc.? Awesome. I had no idea the game was so simple. I guess I will sign up for the tour right..................meow. So a house bowler learns RG and coverstock, throws a terrible shot and then decides it was the wrong RG or coverstock and digs into his 4-9 ball arsenal. Does his knowledge of RG and coverstock help in this case? Or perhaps it is detrimental because he is focused on the wrong thing.

I understand why you are bored - you backed yourself into a corner and you are grasping at non-existent straws.

I got a better idea than flying to Cali to bowl you and your RG and coverstock knowledge. I will just go to KC and party with Iceman furry style. Done deal.

[vdubtx]

I am with mudpuppy on this. The numbers on any of my bowling balls mean jack to me. I know how they roll and what they can and can't do. I know the subtle differences between each one as each one reacts and performs differently based on the condition on the lanes.

First Blood is my go to ball, I know that the Disturbed reacts 3 boards more, I also know the U-Turn reacts 5 boards less. I use this knowledge when I start getting bad reaction from my go to ball and choose accordingly depending on conditions.

It's great to learn a ton regarding the game, but over analyzing and over complicating things is a bad thing in my mind. My motto is KISS. When I try to over think when out on the lanes, that is when I get into trouble and bowl poorly.

[Mudpuppy]

Free trip to Ca, and I will WHAT??? The Free trip sounded ok, but I am not a miracle worker!!! Was that a round trip mudpuppy? I would rather bowl Aslan! Let him see the furry of THE ICEMAN on a bowling lane!! Might even give him my 3rd 300 in less then 8 months on a WOOD Lane of his choice!

I am with mudpuppy on this. The numbers on any of my bowling balls mean jack to me. I know how they roll and what they can and can't do. I know the subtle differences between each one as each one reacts and performs differently based on the condition on the lanes.

First Blood is my go to ball, I know that the Disturbed reacts 3 boards more, I also know the U-Turn reacts 5 boards less. I use this knowledge when I start getting bad reaction from my go to ball and choose accordingly depending on conditions.

It's great to learn a ton regarding the game, but over analyzing and over complicating things is a bad thing in my mind. My motto is KISS. When I try to over think when out on the lanes, that is when I get into trouble and bowl poorly.

Amen. Here is your template for a good post Aslan - well thought out, short, good information, not too much to read.

Keeping it simple is exactly what I try to do - preparation (mentally, physically, equipment, etc.) before hand and then just bowl - focus on the mechanics, the consistency, the repeatability, the small adjustments - i.e. dial in. It's no different to me than riding my motorcycle on the track - would it be helpful if I focus on the 5 compound composition of the tires and how each compound works and what lean angle I can achieve or should I realize I am doing 185mph passing the last brake marker heading into a hairpin turn and I should downshift rapidly, hard brake and throw the bike into the corner before I become a yard sale tumbling through the corner? When I play baseball should I be out in center field secure in the knowledge that I know every facet of how my hand massaged thailand leather baseball glove was made and how it works without actually knowing how to catch a baseball?

And I am not saying you or anybody else shouldn't learn about RG or coverstocks. And I am not disputing it could be helpful. It is just not my cup of tea and it would not help me at all. That is all. And I feel bowling at any level is what works for you. Othrodox, unorthodox, sideways, 2 handed, no handed, upside down.

[mc_runner]

It's great to learn a ton regarding the game, but over analyzing and over complicating things is a bad thing in my mind. My motto is KISS. When I try to over think when out on the lanes, that is when I get into trouble and bowl poorly.

This is where I come from too. Also keep in mind that RG, diff, etc can mean a totally different thing for a high rev bowler throwing over the left gutter cap at 14 mph and a lower rev guy throwing at 18mph down board 10. Factor in different drilling, pin placement, natural variation in how the ball feels on your hand... you can have a ball do totally different things than you'd think it would do.

For me, it takes a few weeks to get adjusted to a new ball and know where to stand with it, how it will react on different oil conditions, etc. Once I have that down, I "know" what it's gonna do compared to my other balls. I bought a Byte at the beginning of January to replace my Hammer Taboo Jet Black, and I figured it would react very similarly due to how I had it drilled and the stats... well, a month later I'm finally getting the hang of how it reacts to my house - I had to move left 2 boards on my "A" shot, throw it out a bit more, and I have a much stronger inside game (my "B" shot) with it than I did the Taboo.

I think knowing the RG, diff, hook potential, and all is good when you're looking at balls - to give it a really high-level feel of what the ball is capable of or designed to do. But you can really change it based on your personal style and layout, and knowing how it's going to react (going on "feel") just comes with throwing it and getting to know it.

[Aslan]

Does ANYONE even remotely agree with me??!

Bowl1820?? Rob?? MikeW? There's not ONE bowler in this highly touted community that feels knowledge is power?

So THIS is what devolved into? A group of bowlers that never practices (Mudpuppy claims I could afford 2 leagues if I stop practicing so much), that carries 4-9 bowling balls to the SAME house on the SAME lanes....yet knows NOTHING about the balls nor when to make a change...other than, "I wasn't feelin it."???

Should I insert a link to Rob's "Know Your Arsenal" article?? Wait...why am I now arguing on the side of Bowl1820 and Rob? Those guys think I'm even more of a loon than the rest of these guys. Screw it. I'm going to get an account on BowlingIntel and talk about numbers...all this "going on feel" and "Iceman's furry" is making me nauseous.

[Aslan]

As I have said before, I'll put money down that most PBA PROS couldnt tell you why they switch balls in terms of RG and such. Chris Barnes could, but CB is a freaking bowling encyclopedia.

You'd put "money down" on that? How poor are you? Because thats a sucker's bet! You're telling me WRW or PDW can't explain pin positions, RG, diff., and coverstocks??? Seriously??

Or are you just trolling trying to start another Belmo man-love arguement. Not taking the bait my friend. Although...Belmo might be the only one that DOESN'T know those terms since his style is so superior that he could throw a poop covered marshmellow and carry 12-15 pins every time...cuz he's all GOD and everything...but I digress.

Of matter of fact, I'm gonna float that question to WRW...I think he has a website where you can ask him questions.

Question 1: Mr. Williams, given it's a superior technique, when will you be switching to 2-handed bowling...and if you aren't going to, when do you plan to retire?

Question 2: Is it true that PBA professionals (other than Chris Barnes) are unable to explain the terms, RG, differential, and the differences in coverstocks?

Thank You. Concerned Bowler.

[RobLV1]

Of course, knowing the numbers is not going to change your style, it is going to give you a big edge in terms of making ball changes along with adjustments. It's one thing to know that one ball is going to cover two more boards than another, but what about when you make a ball change and a 10 board jump left. It's one thing to figure out the differences after a month, but if you know the basics of bowling balls, including the numbers, it's not going to take you a month; more like a game. Remember that the bottom line of bowling balls is that there are really only two factors involved: friction and resistence. Everything; cover, surface, core numbers, and layouts only affect one of these to things. There's no magic involved.

Aslan: Many of the pros understand the numbers involved in bowling balls. Others don't. A prime example is PDW. He freely admits to knowing nothing technical about bowling balls. He has been known to go to Storm Rep Chris Schlemmer and tell him, "I really like this ball, make it do something different." The key here is that the successful touring pros who don't know anthing about bowling balls have ball reps to know about the balls for them.